Sunday, November 09, 2008

Mormon Hate Reaches Fever Pitch In DUmmieland

The Democrats won the White House and gained seats in both houses of Congress in the past election. So do you think the DUmmies would be happy? As it turns out they are angrier than ever. Why? Well, among other thngs, because Propositon 8 in California passed. WAAAAAAAH!!!! They didn't get a hundred percent of what they wanted and now they are crying like a bunch of babies. And who is the scapegoat for their defeat on Prop. 8? It turns out it is the Mormons as you can see in this DUmmie THREAD titled, "I had 2 Mormons knock at my door yesterday." We already had a heads up over this animosity towards the Mormons in this VIDEO produced by the anti-Prop 8 clowns during the campaign and since it failed to pass, their animosity towards Mormons has grown even stronger. So let us now watch the DUmmies attack the Mormons in Bolshevik Red while the commentary of your humble correspondent, thinking that "Attack of the Mormon Missionaries!!!" ad is so stupid as to be campy, is in the [brackets]:


I had 2 Mormons knock at my door yesterday.

[You already got the joke wrong. It's supposed to start out this way: "A Mormon, a priest, and a rabbi knocked on my door."]

I let them talk for about a minute, and then I interrupted. I told them that I had read about a lot of religions including theirs.

[So you read the Book of Mormon? Liar! You probably didn't even read the Bible and I know damn well you never read the Koran since it is impossible to understand.]

I had considered it one of the many of the different religions in this country. I told them I had had a big change of mind after the Prop 8 vote in CA.

[Again you lie. You never did like the Mormons from the get-go. You are just using them as the scapegoat for your Prop. 8 loss.]

I said since their religion had made it a point to get in my business, I was now going to do my best to get in theirs. I was going to start by writing God and everybody to ask that their tax exempt status be removed.

["Dear God. Even though I don't even believe in you, I am asking that you review the U.S. tax code and remove the exemption for Mormons. Sincerely yours. Another Deranged DUmmie."]

I also reported them to Homeland Security because I believed
they were trying to subvert the Constitution and turn America into a theocracy.

[I would have loved to have seen the Homeland Security person answering the phone. When you got done with your "report," he probably made a spinning motion with his finger next to his head.]

I also said that I had contacted a lawyer and the FBI to have any info about me removed from their genealogical project. I said I thought their claim to want to retroactively baptize people was a front to collect info for nefarious purposes. I wanted every syllable about me and my family removed from their records.

[Could we retroactively abort you?]

Then I told them to get their magic underwear wearing, gold plate believing, Osmond listening, Oz temple going, skinny necktie wearing selves off
my doorstep and never come back. If they did I would have them arrested for trespassing, and I was going to call local law enforcement right then to report them as weird looking, neat people who were spying on the city and might be up to no good. They should be checked to see if they had any gasoline and fertilizer residue on them.

[I sure hope there is no rule against Mormons beating the crap out of incredibly annoying offensive people. If there is such a rule, I would petition the Mormon leadership to make a special exemption in your case.]

At least I didn't cuss at them.

[How thoughtful. And now to hear from the other Mormon hating DUmmies...]

good for you, i'm tired of being nice to people like this when they sure as hell aren't nice to me or mine

[As if you were ever nice to Mormons.]

this is religious intolerance.

[LOUSY FREEPER TROLL!!!]


I feel the same way about the f*cking Dobsonites, and the right-wing pentecostal asshoes, and the Mormon f*cking church...
and the would be witch killer Reverend motherf*cking Muthee...
and Franklin f*cking Graham,
and Pat f*cking Robertson,
and the late Jerry f*cking Falwell,
and the execrable con artist who wrote "The Secret,"
and David trying-to-bring-back-Polio Kirby,
and John f*cking-the-memory-of-the-departed Edward,
and Sylvia the-f*cking-bloodsucker Browne,
and all their priests, and all their acolytes,

[and Charles the DUFU-writing-Lutheran-pastor Henrickson.]

LDS missionaries - the people who come to your door - are carefully vetted by the LDS church to make sure they adhere to church policies. It wouldn't make much sense to send out "subversives" to represent and attempt to spread the religion, after all

[More carefully vetted than LSD Barack Obama ever was.]

before I was married, I roommed with a "jack morman" - his brother was a BISHOP, albeit closeted. Once it became common knowledge, he was excommunicated. My roommate, by the way, was bisexual, and frequently moved in order to evade the dreaded knock at the door from the missionaries his mother would sic on him (he and I would hole up in his room with the coffee pot when we'd get a visit from the Mormans).

[Mer-MAN....Mer-MAN! (My favorite line from "Zoolander.")]

Is Fictional Writing Your New Hobby?

[A skeptical DUmmie who does not believe the Mormon encounter story of the original DUmmie.]

No shit, and it's not good fiction either. Completely unbelievable, even in the context of the traditional DU "damndest-thing-happened-to-me-aint-I-a-badass" story.

[Another skeptical DUmmie who does not believe the BS spouted by the original DUmmie.]

It's about time someone said something to those sactimonious bigots!

[How about if we say something to the chip-on-the-shoulder loons?]

Release the HOUNDS! You should have cussed them out. The prop 8 debacle removed what little tolerance I had for the mormon cult. War has been declared.

[You never had any tolerance for the Mormon "cult" to begin with.]

They've finally given up on me. They take one look at that four-foot high statue of Kwan Yin on the stoop, the Green Tara banner in my kitchen window, and the Tibetan prayer flags and they know I'm a lost cause and move on to easier pickings. All of which is good, because I'm way too pissed off to be polite to them after last week.

[And your rainbow colored Wiccan leather jockstrap was also quite a deal killer.]

60 Comments:

Anonymous Ray said...

So, all those minorities, Blacks (70 %) and Latinos (53%), who voted for Prop 8 are all Mormons?

7:04 PM  
Anonymous DumbAss Tanker said...

"I know damn well you never read the Koran since it is impossible to understand."

No kidding, especially since it isn't the "Real" Koran unless it's in Arabic.

7:32 PM  
Anonymous elrond hubbard said...

No shit, and it's not good fiction either. Completely unbelievable, even in the context of the traditional DU "damnest-thing-happened-to-me-aint-I-a-badass" story.

Yep, all those DUmmie confrontations with Mormons, Rethuglican dental technicians, motorists with "Bush'04" bumper stickers, anti-abortion pickets, fundie home schoolers and right-wing co-workers. Just works of fiction. Every word a lie, including "and" and "the". DUmmie politcal porn. Digital flapdoodle.

8:19 PM  
Anonymous Corona said...

They sure stood up to those pesky Mormons and gave them what for, eh? Ooooooo! What balls!
Why don't they just pull out all the stops and tear into the real red meat.....the evil diabolical Amish! Oooooo!

8:39 PM  
Blogger Tazzerman said...

I'm laughing so hard I forgot what I was going to say! I hate it when that happens..

Corona, yep those diabolical Amish! I mean everyone KNOWS they truly DO run the world right??

LOL

9:13 PM  
Anonymous Smitty said...

Of course no DUmmie would dream of confronting a African-American or Hispanic about their opposiiton to gay marriage: a)that would be racist and, b)they might get the crap beaten out of them by a working class person with a low tolerance for DUmmie bullshit.

9:26 PM  
Anonymous Shambhala said...

"crap beaten out of them by a working class person with a low tolerance for DUmmie bullshit."

1.- What is 'working class'?? Do I qualify if I am Latino?

2.- Do you think as a Latino that I am more prone to violence?

I would have voted AGAINST Prop8 BTW.
Just keeping you on your toes.

9:40 PM  
Anonymous smitty said...

shambhala,

1. Of course you can be a working class Latino [working class = blue collar job, you can also be white collar]. 2. Only in respect to DUmmie bullshit.

The point is that the DUmmies are picking on Mormons who opposed Prop8 but say nothing about the two groups that actually voted against it with sizable majorities, [blacks and latinos] becuase it would be politically incorrect to do so. They can't be ethnic bigots but it's O.K. to be religious bigots.

This DUmmie said: The prop8 debacle removed what little tolerance I had for the mormon cult. War has been declared.

Substitute "blacks" or "latinos" for "mormon cult" and see
the DUmmie bigotry.

P.S. I'm not a Mormon.

10:14 PM  
Anonymous troglaman said...

"They didn't get a hundred percent of what they wanted and now they are crying like a bunch of babies." PJ

Nope.

"So, all those minorities, Blacks (70 %) and Latinos (53%), who voted for Prop 8 are all Mormons?" surprisingly ray

Yep. Not that they're all Mormans. But ray's stats are right.

Blacks, which went overwhelmingly for Obama, and Latinos, which went overwhelmingly for Obama, aren't crying about Prop 8. They probably put it over the top.

So. What could Blacks (Babtist), Mormons (well...Mormons), Hispanic (Catholic), Wingnuts (Church of Rattle-Snake Jesus Wrangling), all have in common?

That would be The God Thing.

But I, troglaman, know better. You pussies are afraid of the homos. You have the balls to declare yourselves even bigger pussies than those who are pussified. Amazing, if you think about it, you big, tough, rough-and-tumblers.

Name one, just one credible threat to society if gays marry. You can't...other than The God Thing.

The reason people are afraid of homos isn't because they're white, black, left, right. It's the Churches. You know I'm right.

1:27 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

TMan
What part of 'democracy' do you not understand retard?

10:43 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

DUmmies transferring false claims to the Mormons now, e.g. "I have a friend who's Black, Chinese, Indian, Arab, a terrorist" complete with bogus story

Mormons getting credit for bans on gay marriage could put Mitt Romney over the top in the next election.

11:07 AM  
Anonymous Ray said...

"What could Blacks (Babtist), Mormons (well...Mormons), Hispanic (Catholic), Wingnuts (Church of Rattle-Snake Jesus Wrangling), all have in common?"

What do they have in common? They ALL believe in democracy, and they all made a choice. Accept that choice, Trog, and move on. Stop the hate or it will consume you. Do you REALLY want to go through life acting lite a petty, angry little man? If so, be prepared for a very lonely life.

11:35 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Ray, troggy is already a petty little man.
Go ahead, troggy, say something. Prove it to Ray.

Skul

12:13 PM  
Anonymous Jerome Goolsby said...

Hey Ray -

You have to remember that all an obviously hate-mongering guttersnipe like Troglaman has is his hate. He can't believe in free choice and free will because his private fantasy world would be rejected and he can't stand reality.

Speaking of reality, since some who post here like historical fact, it's a historical fact that every society that embraced and promoted "gay" lifestyles as an acceptable practice ceased to exist shortly thereafter.

The minorities who voted to help pass Prop 8 in California are more socially conservative than even Caucasians can be (and that is how Republicans can restablish themselves if they are smart).

Irregardless, they voted for Prop 8, as they should have. Let's let Troglaman continue through his life in a blind rage at a world he won't accept unless he has his head slammed up his ass and enjoy the humor in his stupidity. His hate is what he has for company, and he's welcome to it.

12:38 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

"I also reported them to Homeland Security because I believed they were trying to subvert the Constitution and turn America into a theocracy"

Funny but true story, I was a young LT at Ft Campbell a few years ago, and had staff duty one Friday night when I got a call from an irate citizen calling to complain about 101st ABN helicopters flying around his house. He lived in the country near the back of base where all the ranges are and there was obviously some training going on. He insisted he was going to call the FBI because the helicopters were trying to take over the country in clear violation of the posse comitatus act. I just rolled my eyes as I listened to this guy rant about black helocpters, Cheney and the new World Order. I hung up and we all had a good laugh at his expense. Probably the same DUmmie that "called" Homeland Security to complain about mormons.

1:05 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I thought the two "dykes" in the video were pretty hot ... no way that they could really be gay!

4:18 PM  
Anonymous John Galt said...

"... it's a historical fact that every society that embraced and promoted "gay" lifestyles as an acceptable practice ceased to exist shortly thereafter. ..." - doofus goolsby

Well since most historical "societies" (I take it you mean "governments" there) no longer exist by definition of historical, any so-called "fact" could be roped into being the cause for their demise.

Roman senators (much like ours) had a penchant for young boys (certainly a "gay" lifestyle): that "society" lasted a thousand years. Some say it was in decay for 900 of those years. :)

4:27 PM  
Anonymous John Galt said...

You are all reading trog wrong.

Besides he has a point about religion mixing with gubmint: a point which the founding fathers you all profess to love so much codified into the First, Ninth, and Tenth Amendments to the US Constitution.

4:32 PM  
Anonymous elrond hubbard said...

t-man,

Prop8 went down becuase of cultural bias, not religious bias.
DUmmies declaring war on Mormons are wasting their time (but what else is new?).

Most straight people aren't afraid of "homos", they just don't have much use for them and they don't see how gay marriage will improve a venerable institution.

Still, I agree with you. Gay marriage is not a credible threat to society.

4:34 PM  
Anonymous john galt said...

Legislating morality is a threat to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.

5:06 PM  
Anonymous Jerome Goolsby said...

To John Galt -

The reason Prop 8 was even required is that the court system was forcing recognition of "gay" marriage in violation of the First Amendment. Dealing with "gay rights" has always been a moral issue until the government and courts tried to ram the legitimization of such things down the public's throats in response to the rants of "gays" who don't want to deal with the morality of their actions and seek secular legitimazation of their behavior so they never have to.

5:39 PM  
Anonymous troglaman said...

"What do they have in common? They ALL believe in democracy, and they all made a choice. Accept that choice, Trog". ray

I never said I didn't accept their choice, dumbass. I said they all have The God Thing going on. And they do. Face it, scardy-cat.

12:57 AM  
Anonymous troglaman said...

"Most straight people aren't afraid of "homos", they just don't have much use for them and they don't see how gay marriage will improve a venerable institution. Still, I agree with you. Gay marriage is not a credible threat to society." the conflicted elrond

Let me get this straight. "They (straight people) just don't have much use for them". "(marriage is a) venerable institution".

I don't know what the hell you're talking about here. Could you explain those 2 statements, elrond? Seems to me you're telling me your not scared because you're scared.

1:09 AM  
Anonymous troglaman said...

"His hate is what he has for company, and he's welcome to it." jerome

Love you, jerome. *smooch*

1:13 AM  
Anonymous john galt said...

"... Dealing with "gay rights" has always been a moral issue until the Dealing with "gay rights" has always been a moral issue until the government and courts tried to ram the legitimization of such things down the public's throats ..." - goolsby

So to prevent "the government and courts [ramming] the legitimization of such things down the public's throats" you propose "the government and courts [ram] the [de-]legitimization of such things down the public's throats"

Brilliant! Just fucking brilliant!

1:19 PM  
Anonymous john galt said...

Sorry about the poor editing of your quote, goolsby. Lemme try again:

"... Dealing with "gay rights" has always been a moral issue until the government and courts tried to ram the legitimization of such things down the public's throats ..." - goolsby

So to prevent "the government and courts [ramming] the legitimization of such things down the public's throats" you praise "the [people forcing] government and courts [to ram] the [de-]legitimization of such things down the public's throats" as a solution??

Brilliant! Just fucking brilliant!

1:23 PM  
Anonymous john galt said...

The solution I propose to dealing with so-called "gay rights" is to simply change "gay" to "individual" and stick with the principle of the Constitution: that government's primary function is to protect the life, liberty and property of its citizens.

1:26 PM  
Anonymous elrond hubbard said...

t-man,

Why should I explain anything to you, dumbass? You'll just gainsay whatever I say; your determination to misread me is truly astounding.
Even when I agree with you, you find something to nitpick.

3:51 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Why is it that Lefist whack-jobs have such a penchant for bragging about either enlightening (read: preaching nastily) or confronting people who are ill-equipped to defend themselves against such hate? Half the time the bitchiness involves some supermarket check-out girl.

Here's a good rule: Don't say anything to anyone you wouldn't say to Mr. T.
Picking on the meek is evil.

4:31 PM  
Anonymous Jerome Goolsby said...

Obviously John Galt, you like many people don't bother to read the ENTIRE First Amendment.

Right after the section saying Congress cannot make laws respecting an establishment of religion it also says "or prohibiting the free exercise thereof".

Courts demanding the codification of "gay" marriage in the law are infringing on my right for free exercise of my religion which says such things are an abomination. That requires that actions like Prop 8 are undertaken both to make sure that that the state constitution negates courts that refuse to respect the First Amendment rights of myself and millions of others and to protect from having to respect the actions of other states who refuse to acknowledge the restrictions of the First Amendment concerning religious freedom.

And since it is the democratic way and the Constitutional process to deal with such actions, yes, you're right, it's fucking brilliant. I would vote for a constitutional restriction against "gay" marriage in a nanosecond because it's an issue of failing to respect my religious beliefs and has nothing to do with civil rights. Prove beyond all doubt that people are born "gay" and then I'll change my mind. Until then, I will just be happy being "fucking brilliant".

10:18 PM  
Anonymous troglaman said...

"The solution I propose to dealing with so-called "gay rights" is to simply change "gay" to "individual" and stick with the principle of the Constitution: that government's primary function is to protect the life, liberty and property of its citizens."

Yeah. What the heck is so wrong with this notion? Why is it sooooo scary? It's going on anyway, for Christ's sake. It will continue to go on whether or not you stupid shits take a stand or not. It's not a moral question. Gays don't choose their orientation. They don't.

So we can argue for years and years about their rights but it's like arguing about people's choice to be hungry or not. To be blond or not. To like tofu or not. And to believe this is a danger is fucking nuts. IT'S ALL READY A REALITY. IT'S BEEN A REALITY ALL ALONG.

You people mystify me with what you choose to be afraid of. Pussies.

4:44 AM  
Anonymous troglaman said...

"Why should I explain anything to you, dumbass? You'll just gainsay whatever I say; your determination to misread me is truly astounding." elrond

What I asked was this:

"Let me get this straight. "They (straight people) just don't have much use for them". "(marriage is a) venerable institution".

I don't know what the hell you're talking about here. Could you explain those 2 statements, elrond?" the mighty troglaman

I'm not misreading, I'm asking for clarification. I'll try again - could you explain those 2 statements, elrond?

4:58 AM  
Anonymous john galt said...

" Courts demanding the codification of "gay" marriage in the law are infringing on my right for free exercise of my religion which says such things are an abomination. " - goolsby

They are doing no such thing. You're perfectly free to believe and practice whatever you want unlike fringe minorities the law suppresses.

That ain't how it's supposed to work: the Constitution is supposed to protect the individual from both government and whomever pulls together the most numerous gang to vote on the issue.

What you're fighting against is being put into the same situation you wish to put gays into in this case. Think about that.

1:11 PM  
Anonymous john galt said...

"... Gays don't choose their orientation. ..." - trog

The evidence is inconclusive on that.

All human action is ideally the result of a rational, self-interested choice. The ethical principle is that all humans must be free to choose their path.

1:18 PM  
Anonymous john galt said...

"... protect the individual from both government and whomever pulls together the most numerous gang to vote on the issue. ..." -me

This is the distinction between a republic and a democracy. Democracy ends in anarchy and mob/gang rule (in other words, no rules)

POWER TO THE PEOPLE! the marxists and democrats say: this is why they are fundamentally nihilistic.

1:23 PM  
Anonymous elrond hubbard said...

t-man,

Those two statements are models of clarity. It's your inability (or refusal) to understand them that needs explanation (or, after all, you are just a dumbass).

4:52 PM  
Anonymous troglaman said...

"... Gays don't choose their orientation. ..." - trog

"The evidence is inconclusive on that." galt

Nope. It's not. And I'm entirely comfortable in engaging in a trading of the facts on the subject (in other words, I'll kick your ass).

It's important. Gays aren't anymore choosing their orientation than are diabetics about choosing their sugar intake. Prove me wrong.

1:46 AM  
Anonymous troglaman said...

"All human action is ideally the result of a rational, self-interested choice." galt

Ideally.

Hunger isn't a choice. Disease isn't a choice. Orientation is not a choice. Your mother wasn't a choice. Your father, grandfather, uncle and cousins weren't a choice. Where you were born wasn't a choice. Your neighbors weren't a choice. Your 1st grade teacher wasn't a choice. Natural disasters aren't a choice.

I'd love a world like yours, galt. Unfortunately, we're not living there.

1:56 AM  
Anonymous elrond hubbard said...

T-man,

You're right (for once); sexual orientation isn't a matter of choice.

Still, that doesn't make a case for gay marriage.

12:29 PM  
Anonymous john galt said...

Trog, you are correct that the occurrence of situations that are beyond an individual's control (e.g., most of the examples you provided) are not the result of choice. However the individual's action in response to the situation is a matter of choice and must never be dictated by the government or a mob.

Freedom means being free to act both stupidly and wrongly. It also is the only condition that enables progress.

I won't get into a religious argument with you as to the nature and causes of "gayness" -- suffice it that we agree to disagree as to whether your postulate is either proven or correct.

9:36 PM  
Anonymous troglaman said...

"However the individual's action in response to the situation is a matter of choice and must never be dictated by the government or a mob." galt

Then who? The individual?

What about the notion that individuals respond to mob behavior (Jonestown)? That a social hierarchy, also demonstrated by other primates, is at play. What if most of us need that? Rational choice is not where most of us live, mr galt. Emotion matters. Rules do apply. Neither have to do with being rational.

2:17 AM  
Anonymous troglaman said...

"Still, that doesn't make a case for gay marriage." elrond

Does this mean all civil rights for people with genetic-determined conditions should be further evaluated? Like heart disease. Depression. Epilepsy. Schizophrenia. Dwarfism.

If you concede that homosexuality is genetically determined, then how is it that you can offer a diabetic civil rights you don't want to give a gay?

I'll tell you why: Ass jumping. Makes you nervous. You all think you're about to be corn holed at any moment. Especially if gays can get married. Then we're all gonna get our bungholes stretched. Strap-on or the real thing, doesn't matter. None of us are safe.

2:53 AM  
Anonymous elrond hubbard said...

t-man,

You're being absurd and frivolous. Having spent the first 38 years of my life in New York City/Madison I knew gay men and women as friends, neighbors and co-workers.

They knew I was straight (being married with three children was a big tip-off) and I was never importuned. "Ass jumping" was not a consideration, gay people are (certainly those I knew) are more considerate and smarter than that.

People with genetic conditions (including gays) do have all civil rights but I don't necessarily think that marriage is a civil right (like the right to vote or freedom from job discrimination). Marriage is an ancient institution, probably one of civilization's oldest---and it's essential character shouldn't be changed without extensive debate and reflection.

I'm still wrestling with this one.

BTW, homosexuality may be genetically determined (like my left handedness) but gays don't consider it a "disability" like dwarfism or diabetes.

3:27 PM  
Blogger The Gunslinger said...

Name one, just one credible threat to society if gays marry. You can't...other than The God Thing.

Well actually, Trog, marriage recognized by the state is a privilege...not a right. And society deems it good to reward the privilege of marriage to those people who are willing to vow fidelity to each other for the purpose of making and raising the next generation.

"Marriage" is not about "love" or the "fulfillment of the partners" or any other such drivel. It is about the recognition by society that couples thus dedicated will be taking on the burden of perpetuating the species.

Homosexual unions simply don't qualify for this particular privilege.

Society does, actually, have some right to determine upon whom it will confer privileges.

And every privilege conferred by society is not a "civil right" automatically due to everyone.

Homosexuals have the EXACT same right to marry as I do. I have to marry a member of the opposite sex. So do they. There is no "discrimination" at all.

They want "special" rights for themselves: The privilege of marriage without the duties & responsibilities.

(Don't bring up adoption...as it is the radical homosexual lobby that is forcing THAT down everyone's throat too!)

It's quite simple really.

Heterosexuality is the norm. Obviously. If it were not, we would not be here. Heterosexuality is the planetary norm. Homosexuality is a deviation from the norm.

Assuming for the moment that homosexuality is inherent, it may be considered "natural", but it can't be considered "normal".

I don't hate homosexuals anymore than I hate people born blind. But it makes as much sense to privilege homosexuals with marriage as to privilege the blind with drivers licenses.

They are not qualified.

6:05 PM  
Anonymous john galt said...

"... Well actually, Trog, marriage recognized by the state is a privilege ..." - slinger

No it is not a privilege. It's a recognition by the state of a valid contract (written or otherwise) between two individuals. It's only another way for the state to bill them for doing something that makes sense from a "partnership in survival" perspective.

11:18 PM  
Anonymous john galt said...

Also, how is a license from the state a "reward" slinger? Rewards are earned: licenses are bought from the state by the licensees.

11:22 PM  
Anonymous john galt said...

"... Rational choice is not where most of us live, mr galt. ..." - trog

Unfortunately for humanity, you are correct. Rationality has been driven out of most people by religious and other indoctrination (e.g., college philosophy classes taught by Sartre-lovers).

This is done to increase the likelihood that individuals will respond emotionally to the mob's pressures and thus be more readily controlled by whichever thug can inflame and motivate the mob.

It's a very ugly condition for Man, trog. It is exactly what explains Jonestown.

Why can't you see that instead of waxing rhapsodic over irrationality and emotion?

11:30 PM  
Anonymous troglaman said...

"People with genetic conditions (including gays) do have all civil rights but I don't necessarily think that marriage is a civil right (like the right to vote or freedom from job discrimination)." elrond

Are you saying gay couples enjoy the the same civil rights as hetero's? They don't. And you know it. - the mighty troglaman

"You're right (for once); sexual orientation isn't a matter of choice." elrond

(Before I take issue and attempt to portray you as an idiot, I have to say your posts, elrond, have been uncommonly honest)

One question: If gays are born gay, then didn't God want it that way? Maybe you could all explain to me why God wants gays born into good Christian families. Because they are born into good Christian families. Atheist families. Ugandan families. Muslim families. Buddist families. Hindu families. Saudi families. And especially Greek families.

Choice? Choice has nothing to do with this, right? God decides.

So if God decided to create gay people, then who are we to take issue?

3:37 AM  
Anonymous troglaman said...

"Why can't you see that instead of waxing rhapsodic over irrationality and emotion?" galt

Goddamn it, galt. You're the one getting all rhapsodic over your 'Atlas Shrugged' shit. Not me. Your 'worthiness template' makes no sense to me, you friggin robot.

Ayn Rand's been resurrected and set up a compound in South America. Interested galt?

You're not who you think you are. True believers are never true to themselves. Ever. That concept make sense to you, galt?

4:07 AM  
Blogger The Gunslinger said...

Galt,

Contracts and privileges are not necessarily mutually exclusive.

There is no logical reason why entering certain contracts cannot be held a privilege.

All contracts require being "qualified" to enter them.

Emotionalism enters this argument on the homosexual side, I'm afraid, not the opposing one.

Trog..."God" decided to create blind people too. We still don't let them drive.

11:26 AM  
Anonymous john galt said...

Trog, Rand is only one popular writer. Many with the same ideas about the role of Reason and Freedom preceded her by decades and centuries.

You're confused. Too bad. Read the sources I listed and sent you.

1:26 PM  
Anonymous elrond hubbard said...

t-man,

Choice has nothing to do with this, right? God decides.

As an atheist/agnostic (I haven't decided which) I'm certain God doesn't apportion sexual orientation, your DNA does. Just like it assigns the color of your eyes or your diabetes.

Marriage is a societal institution and not genetic, so "the people" decide its parameters. Right now, most of "the people" don't think that it should be extended to same sex couples. The problem for gay marriage is that, right now, most Americans don't see it as a traditional civil rights issue.

2:35 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

"If you concede that homosexuality is genetically determined, then how is it that you can offer a diabetic civil rights you don't want to give a gay?"

This is simple. What you are and what you do are two very different things. It's curious that you would compare homosexuality to an illness.

As for treating homosexuals as individuals, they already have the right to marry. They just can't marry someone of the same gender and guess what? Neither can I, so we are equal under the law.

If there is a genetic component to being "gay" then in time, there may be a way for parents to test for and correct it. Would you support that idea? After all, unborn babies are tested for all sorts of other things.

Just wondering...

7:28 PM  
Anonymous galt said...

"... I'm certain God doesn't apportion sexual orientation, your DNA does. ..." LRon

Ahh, the old "gays are victims of their DNA" excuse. Fuck that.

11:20 PM  
Anonymous troglaman said...

"Trog..."God" decided to create blind people too. We still don't let them drive." gunslinger

Would you let blind people marry each other, gunslinger? They can't see. Who the hell knows what they're getting into? Oh, that's right, you do. By the way, do married homos drive around like blind people do? Crashing into shit and everything? Maybe be that's just wishful thinking on your part.

Dumbshit metaphor, gunslinger. Keep it up.

3:17 AM  
Anonymous troglaman said...

"Ahh, the old "gays are victims of their DNA" excuse. Fuck that." galt

Wow. You mean you have evidence that it isn't DNA? Or are you just being a big, big dumbass? Explain this galt. You saying gays make a choice?

Now that I think about it, fuck the dwarfs too. Epileptics. Schizophrenics. Fuck em. They know what they're doing. Fucking parasites. And all these damn grand mal seizure fuckers can go to hell. Fuckin fakers. These fuckers just love choosing to spend time bouncing around the emergency room chomping tongue depressors.

And who among us has not met a midget that didn't want to nail Judy Garland as a flying monkey or a Munchkin. Fucking perverts.

As an aside, maybe you could just state the reasons for your positions briefly. 4 or 5 statement about how...umm...batshit nuts you are. Anymore than that becomes detrimental to your argument. Unless the argument is about how batshit crazy you are. In that case, carry on to your heart's content.

3:54 AM  
Anonymous troglaman said...

"It's curious that you would compare homosexuality to an illness." anon

It's curious that YOU compare homosexuality to a, wait a minute, "illness". I didn't. The worst I did was refer to it as a 'condition' of sorts, determined by DNA. That's the thing that determines things like blond hair, blue eyes, brown eyes, big eyes, small eyes, almond shaped eyes, stink eyes...etc. DNA. God-like for sure. In fact, I would have to say that anyone born with the gay gene, or the hair-lip gene, or the blond gene, the nose hair gene, the stinky-feet gene, mole gene, wart gene, dogassed nuts gene, is subject to who they are whether they like it or not. Sort of like you and me.

Anyway...you're, dare I say, full of shit as usual.

3:03 AM  
Anonymous troglaman said...

"As an atheist/agnostic (I haven't decided which) I'm certain God doesn't apportion sexual orientation, your DNA does. Just like it assigns the color of your eyes or your diabetes." elrond

YEEEAAAAH!

I haven't decided either. I don't want to, but feel compelled to lean agnostic because I don't fuckin know. Neither does anyone else, whether they think they do or not. Nobody knows.

I really appreciate your honesty this thread, elrond (no snark). You too, mr galt (I reserve my right to verbally abuse you both in the future).

Differences are inevitable. How bored would we all be without them?

3:29 AM  
Anonymous mandible claw said...

tman: It's important. Gays aren't anymore choosing their orientation than are diabetics about choosing their sugar intake. Prove me wrong.

Prove yourself right. It's impossible and you know it as well as I do.

The idea that sexuality is biological is ridiculous; unless you believe that evolution/creation/intelligent design/whatever allows for organisms that simply can't reproduce.

It's as much a choice as heterosexuality. I don't HAVE to be heterosexual, nor does anyone else. I could be asexual, I could even bang a dude if I really tried. It certainly wouldn't be impossible, hell it wouldn't even be difficult, I just wouldn't enjoy it. Everyone has a choice in what we do. On the other hand whatever your thoughts on the origin of the species one thing is for certain: we like every other animal procreate in heterosexual pairs; that is the biological imperative that enables the continued existence of our species. That is the only way in which sex could be said to be biologically or genetically determined, plain and simple.

Anything else is nurture not nature.

And I do love it how progressives will argue in the same breath that gender roles are artificial constructs but sexuality is genetic lol..

6:12 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

The Family: A Proclamation to the World

The First Presidency and Council of the Twelve Apostles of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints

We, the First Presidency and the Council of the Twelve Apostles of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, solemnly proclaim that marriage between a man and a woman is ordained of God and that the family is central to the Creator's plan for the eternal destiny of His children.

All human beings—male and female—are created in the image of God. Each is a beloved spirit son or daughter of heavenly parents, and, as such, each has a divine nature and destiny. Gender is an essential characteristic of individual premortal, mortal, and eternal identity and purpose.

In the premortal realm, spirit sons and daughters knew and worshiped God as their Eternal Father and accepted His plan by which His children could obtain a physical body and gain earthly experience to progress toward perfection and ultimately realize his or her divine destiny as an heir of eternal life. The divine plan of happiness enables family relationships to be perpetuated beyond the grave. Sacred ordinances and covenants available in holy temples make it possible for individuals to return to the presence of God and for families to be united eternally.

The first commandment that God gave to Adam and Eve pertained to their potential for parenthood as husband and wife. We declare that God's commandment for His children to multiply and replenish the earth remains in force. We further declare that God has commanded that the sacred powers of procreation are to be employed only between man and woman, lawfully wedded as husband and wife.

We declare the means by which mortal life is created to be divinely appointed. We affirm the sanctity of life and of its importance in God's eternal plan.

Husband and wife have a solemn responsibility to love and care for each other and for their children. "Children are an heritage of the Lord" (Psalms 127:3). Parents have a sacred duty to rear their children in love and righteousness, to provide for their physical and spiritual needs, to teach them to love and serve one another, to observe the commandments of God and to be law-abiding citizens wherever they live. Husbands and wives—mothers and fathers—will be held accountable before God for the discharge of these obligations.

The family is ordained of God. Marriage between man and woman is essential to His eternal plan. Children are entitled to birth within the bonds of matrimony, and to be reared by a father and a mother who honor marital vows with complete fidelity. Happiness in family life is most likely to be achieved when founded upon the teachings of the Lord Jesus Christ. Successful marriages and families are established and maintained on principles of faith, prayer, repentance, forgiveness, respect, love, compassion, work, and wholesome recreational activities. By divine design, fathers are to preside over their families in love and righteousness and are responsible to provide the necessities of life and protection for their families. Mothers are primarily responsible for the nurture of their children. In these sacred responsibilities, fathers and mothers are obligated to help one another as equal partners. Disability, death, or other circumstances may necessitate individual adaptation. Extended families should lend support when needed.

We warn that individuals who violate covenants of chastity, who abuse spouse or offspring, or who fail to fulfill family responsibilities will one day stand accountable before God. Further, we warn that the disintegration of the family will bring upon individuals, communities, and nations the calamities foretold by ancient and modern prophets.

We call upon responsible citizens and officers of government everywhere to promote those measures designed to maintain and strengthen the family as the fundamental unit of society.

3:18 AM  

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