Turmoil in DUmmieland! Pitt to the rescue!
There is tension and turmoil in DUmmieland! I know, I know, you're saying, "So what else is new?" But the normal turmoil has spiraled out of control! SOMEBODY SHOOK UP THE ANTS!! They've been at each other's THROATS lately! It's the Obama-PelosiCare bill, of course, that has got them all shook up. The DUmmies have discovered that the devil is in the details, and the details are now becoming known. So the DUmmies have been taking it out on their fellow DEMOCRATS there on DEMOCRATIC Underground, in their usual vitriolic style.
TA DA! Peace Piper Pitt rides to the rescue! "Can't have any of that there Dem-bashing in my neck of the woods!" Yes, ever the loyal party hack, Will the Shill has intervened to try to calm the troubled waters. But will he succeed?
In the days leading up to the House vote, Peace Piper Pitt posted this patronizing preemptive attempt at prog pacification, a THREAD called "A A A A A A A A R R R R G G G H H ! ! !" Then came the House vote itself, when the bill passed, and the initial euphoria was soon tempered by an outbreak of Angry, as the Reality-based Community® began to realize what PelosiCare actually would involve. So now the Magic Man™ has had to step in AGAIN to try to divert Dem dissent and dissatisfaction, in this "happy thoughts" THREAD, "Just realized I haven't done one of these in a while...."
So let's watch Pitt try to get the DUmmies to all join hands and sing Kumbaya and pass the peace pipe, in Fire-breathing Red, while the commentary of your humble guest correspondent, Charles Henrickson, slaving away while PJ-Comix is sipping Flor de Caña mai tais on the white sands of Culebra, is in the [brackets]:
A A A A A A A A R R R R G G G H H ! ! !
[It's the Pitt's Brogue Pirate!]
There's so much tension here!
[The natives are restless! Peace Piper Pitt to the rescue!]
People are mean! Or judgmental! Or contrarian! Or anti-Democrat! Or anti-Obama! Or anti-anti-Democrat! Or anti-anti-Obama!
[SOMEBODY SHOOK UP THE ANTI'S!]
...and just kinda generally pissed off.
[Situation Normal: All DUmmied Up.]
But tension is what the Founders intended. If they wanted this sh*t to work seamlessly, we'd have no separation of powers/three branches of government/free speech/voting rights/printing presses/TVs/internet...and it'd be a whole lot easier that way.
[Don't give Obama ideas.]
Thank God/Yahweh/Allah/Buddha/Vishnu/The FSM/etc. it isn't like that.
[You left out Gaia.]
Me raging against you, you raging against them, them raging against us, us raging against those guys. . . .
[Raging Rivers Pitt!]
and all of us motherf*cking each other with bull-throated ferocity...
[Wee Willie's own mother, DUmmie Raven, must be proud of her boy.]
maybe it wasn't what DU was originally intended to be, but it surely is what it is today.
[Bedlam!]
Welcome to democracy.
[Welcome to DUmmieland. Now the other DUmmies chime in . . .]
Actually, your mom kind of rocks.
[This DUmmie has a "thang" for Mother Pitt. Lovely.]
I'm sorry, there are only three R's in "A A A A A A A A R R R G G G H H ! ! !"
[Is that you, Howard Dean?]
When my "free speech" gets unrecced by 30 paid bloggers whose job it is to unrec and derail every healthcare thread, that's not exactly free speech is it? Do you realize you're taking the same stance as those who say corporate funded elections = "free speech"?
[Will the Shill will shill for
Plenty of Dems have some Republican ideas.
[I knew it! Pitt is a Crypto-Rethuglican! Back to Pitt's challenger . . .]
I'm familiar with your work--not calling you a troll. A DLC troll enabler sure, but not a troll.
[LOUSY DLC TROLL ENABLER PITT!!!]
What happens when this site turns into Joe Lieberman Underground. . . ?
[AKA "Joe Below." Back to Pitt . . .]
Do you feel any embarrassment whatsoever when you barf up phrases like "DLC troll enabler"? If you don't, you should. And you should also go outside for a few minutes. Just to try it out. Vitamin D is good for you.
[Way to defuse the tension there, Peace Piper Pitt! Well, now let's see how you do in your thread AFTER the House vote, the details of which only INCREASED the tension and the turmoil . . .]
Just realized I haven't done one of these in a while...
[One of these FAILED attempts at mollification.]
and no, I'm not announcing that I'm leaving DU. . . .
[Darn!]
I came to DU in May of 2001, which means I will be celebrating my 9-year anniversary as a member of this forum in six months.
[Peace Piper Pitt pisses on his post, to mark his territory as Senior Superior Sage.]
Insane, right?
[You said it!]
Like every long-time poster here, I've seen it all. I've been part of the problem sometimes. . . .
[SOMEtimes??]
This place motivated me to begin the first real, serious political action of my life.
[Which didn't last very long, since you soon became a laughingstock.]
I researched three books and countless articles here.
[This is part of a long "I, I, I" section. I'll spare you.]
DU changed my life . . . I'm sure pretty much of you, long-timers and newbies and everyone in between, could share a similar story about this place.
[Thus Pitt begins his diversionary tactic to try to quiet the crowd.]
And that is entirely entirely entirely due to the tireless efforts of Skinner, EarlG, Elad, and all the Moderators past and present.
[This is called "sucking up."]
the Admins and Moderators have worked so hard to make this place what it is.
[A madhouse!]
I am sure they feel like schoolmarms locked into a giant classroom with 50,000 demented children sometimes. . . .
[Especially when they put on their schoolmarm outfits.]
Yeah, this joint is batsh*t crazy, but it's our batsh*t crazy. . . .
[And don't think we here at DUmmie FUnnies aren't grateful!]
Given the mood and mayhem of this place lately . . .
[. . . I thought it was time to try to get your minds off those pesky details of the Pelosi plan.]
Thank you, folks. From my heart.
[No, no, thank YOU, Will! You are our hero!! Now a grateful DUmmieland responds . . .]
Hey! Weren't you part of the Kucinich campaign?
[Uh, next question. . . .]
Been thinkin' bout ya, Will, and the whirling emotions that might be churning at this time.
[After a bender at Bukowski's, Will has LOTS of things churning.]
Hey weren't you the guy who spent $650 on a dinner date?
[That was with Kevin Spacey, wasn't it?]
remember the Canadian girl who always said vis a vis.. like 30 threads a night ...wonder what ever happened to her. . . .
[She lost her visa.]
Thanks to you Pitt for coming back after quitting and being tombstoned so very many times.
[Pitt is the Freddy Krueger of DUmmieland.]
DU has made a difference, and we are all a part.
[Apart at the seams.]
IIRC, you were the reason they invented the Tombstone? You helped bury a lot of freepers in those days, eh?
[William Rivers Pith-Helmet, Hunter of Trolls.]
I have my share of scalps.
Were all the 60's hippies and radicals so thouroughly compromised that they were completely assimilated into the borg?
[It's the Pitt's Borg Stealer!]
DU was a revelation, and has become the place that I go to. . . .
[Revelation 19:20, "the lake of fire burning with brimstone."]
has anyone told you how much you look like abraham Lincoln?
[With his bald pate, expanding girth, and gravelly voice, Pitt is looking more and more like my old Jewish neighbor Abe.]
I'm glad you have stuck around all these years.
[Pitt is stuck on stupid. Besides, he doesn't have anywhere else to go.]
They will probably have to take my mouse out of my cold dead hands. . . .
[Is that you, benburch?]
Thanks Will. You are a star.
[THAT is what Will has been waiting for! But really--Will, a star? Are you Sirius?]
It's a pleasant surprise to see a navel-gazing DU meta-discussion thread that isn't complaining about this place.
[The night is young. Hey, gang, this is Head DUmmie Skinner checking in!]
I suppose being the one in charge here makes me predisposed to believe that DU is doing just fine, but let me just say: DU is doing just fine.
[Head DUmmie Skinner does his Baghdad Bob impression.]
The mild feeling of discomfort and confusion that many people have been feeling lately is fairly easily explained. . . .
[Little things, really. Like Obama and Pelosi selling out to the insurance companies. Like, "You mean, my boss might drop my health insurance plan and make me buy government insurance??" Like, "You mean, fines and jail terms if you don't buy the government insurance??" Like, "You mean, Somebody Else ain't gonna pay for my health care??" You know, those niggly little details. Other than that, everything's hunky-dory.]
We run the country now.
[Kyrie eleison! Well, enough from Head DUmmie Skinner; back to the peon DUmmies . . .]
The fact that William Pitt, one of our movement's most passionate and felicitous writers, is a (mostly) regular here is a testament to the caliber of activist journalism DU attracts.
[Journalist Pitt . . . Wasn't he the one who broke the Rove indictment story? Yeah, yeah, it's coming back to me now. . . .]
I came to DU in December of 2003. It was an interesting day: Patrick Fitzgerald was assigned the Plame investigation, and you (Will Pitt) wrote what I still consider one of the absolute best essays on the case.
[That must have been the FIRST time Rove was indicted.]
My intitial goal was to stay until 7-14-04. "Old-timers" here will remember why that date stuck out.
[The second Rove indictment?]
Will, I was with you at Camp Casey.
[Fire ants in the ditch! Get the Off!]
I love it. The thread titles are always like: "DU has changed so much!" (I've been here for over 7 years, and there is one of those threads a month.) So, no, nothing's changed.
[Change McSame.]
In the years since I came here in 2003, I've stirred the pot many times. . . .
[And smoked it many more.]
Will, you are far too modest.
[Will has plenty to be modest about!]
My favorite Will Pitt story: I went to Camp Casey in Crawford. First day I was there, I walked around taking pictures of the bumper stickers on cars. The best one was the car where someone had typed out a Will Pitt quote and taped it to the inside of the rear window of their car.
[That must have been Will's rental car.]
Thank you for making this my favourite political site!
[Where I can use Euro-wannabe spelling and everything!]
I am a liberal-site-whore. . . .
[Leftward ho!]
Yay Will! You still have that d*mn earring stuck in your ear?
[And with that comment about the shiny object in Will's ear, we now see that Pitt's effort at temporarily diverting the DUmmies from the devilish details of ObamaCare was, in this thread at least, SUCCESSFUL! But stay tuned, I'm sure the fur will be flying soon enough, next time on DUmmie FUnnies!]
posted by PJ-Comix at 1:57 PM
23 Comments:
Poor WillPitt, he's been reduced to begging for attention at the DUmp again. Every time he tries to strike out in a different direction he ends up back on the barroom floor in Dummieland.
...And yet he still comes off as a condescending, clueless prick.
Can you imagine if Obama (for real) posted at DU? Can you imagine the fawning? Think Jose. Can you imagine the temperature loss in Pitts' & Skinners' foreheads as their status immediately hits the floor? Nah, neither can I.
"The DUmmies have discovered that the devil is in the details, and the details are now becoming known. So the DUmmies have been taking it out on their fellow DEMOCRATS there on DEMOCRATIC Underground, in their usual vitriolic style." PJinkblot
Well, let's see. Since the RepubliDUms don't mean shit, it sort-of follows that fight resides within the DUmbs, right? Or is it the fact that the DUmbs aren't in lock-step (like you dumbasses) that bothers you?
Once again, PJ points out the obvious - that you're all irrelevant. And he's right. But it's fun being on the sidelines. It provides a certain, armchair-quarterback-type of freedom knowing that whatever you think doesn't really matter. So what the fuck?
Let's review...you fuckers don't have any ideas. Therefore the argument takes place with those of us that do. Simple as that.
Trogs,
It's never that simple, as you well know.
But, we're irrelevant, we have no ideas, or input, or power, we're sidelined...
...so it all belongs to you: the $141 billion deficit in October (multiply that by 12), the ongoing Afghanistan fiasco, the 10.2% unemployment rate, the coming collapse of GM, the Ft. Hood massacre, the idiotic trial decision.
It's all yours,and yours alone; what we think or say doesn't matter. Does it?
And yes, I know, you'll blame Bush.
That doesn't fly, Barack Hussein Hoover is in charge now.
"the ongoing Afghanistan fiasco" elrond
"the Ft. Hood massacre" elrond
"the idiotic trial decision" (I, troglaman, am guessing you mean the decision to try terrorists on home soil)
http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2009/11/13/world/1113-terror-cases.html
The Afghan "fiasco" has been going on for 8 years or so. Obama's been President for around 11 months. And you still think he's the one fucking things up? You're a dumbass.
Let's hear how Obama's somehow responsible for Ft. Hood, elrond. Can't wait. You might want to consider that I'll cook your ass.
And, most importantly, if you're talking about the terrorist trials (I'm not sure you are), then you, my friend, have succumbed to terrorism. You're afraid. Trying them on American soil will unleash the Islamic Jihad. They'll have a pulpit. They'll recruit. They'll bend our minds with their Islamic brainwashing rhetoric.
You're afraid. Just like they want you to be. You've surrendered.
London tried their bombers. Spain tried their bombers. Even Indonesia tried their bombers. So did India.
They weren't afraid. They believed their rule of law would prevail. And it did.
But what the hell. Continue to be afraid, pussys. Gather your guns and your ammunition, go down in the basement...and cower. Wait for the hordes of Americans twisted by the Islamic devils preaching from their court-appointed pulpits and trust that there isn't another American around that fucking realizes they're FULL OF SHIT.
Pathetic.
Obama is responsible for the Ft. Hood massacre the same way Bush was responsible for 9/11, it happened on his watch (as the Democrats loveed to say) Everyone twiddled their thumbs while Major Nasan walked around with a virtual "I'm a Jihadi" neon sign over his head. Political correctness kills.
The KSM trial is nothing but political theater, a sop to Obama's left wing base. The One knows he can't go after Bush directly so he's using this trial to do an end run around public opinion. This "trial" could drag on for years, but the terrorists will not be on trial---America and the Bush administration will be. Count on it.
And yes, you're right, Obama has been President for 11 months but no, he can't make a decision about Afghanistan. It's his "necessary" war (he said that, not me); he has to decide what to do. I suspect that he wants to leave but hasn't courage to do, so he'll continue to dither, in effect deciding not to decide. Meanwhile, military morale slips.
...and the deficit soars, along with unemployment rate.
Trog,
One more thing. The logic of Obama's decision (and it was his decison) to hold a civilian trial in NYC makes no sense.
On the same day Holder sent KSM to a civilian trial in NYC, he announced that the five terrorists who attacked the USS Cole would have a military trial.
Where's the logic? Holder said the terrorists who attacked a warship get a military trial while the terorists who attacked a civilian target get a civilian trial. But the Pentagon was also attacked on 9/11, maybe Holder forget that minor fact.
Which is a worse war crime, attacking the Cole or the 9/11 attacks? Why does KSM, who attacked civilians, get all the extra constitutional protections of a civilian court?
Basically, Obama and Holder are telling wanna be terrorists that attacking civilians is a better bet. Kill civilians and you'll get a comfy jail cell with three squares, Miranda rights and an ACLU lawyer.
BTW. There's a chance KSM could be let off on a technicality or found innocent (especially if the jury comes from Greenwich Village or the Upper West Side). But he'll be re-arrested in the court room and put on trial again and again. KSM and his buddies will never be released (even Obama isn't that stupid). That's why the NYC trial is political theater and the real target is George Bush.
BTW. A trial in NYC, the media capital of the world, will be an absolute zoo. The security will be overwhelming and thousands of workers and inhabitants of downtown Manhattan will be disrupted for months or years.
"Obama is responsible for the Ft. Hood massacre the same way Bush was responsible for 9/11, it happened on his watch (as the Democrats loveed to say) Everyone twiddled their thumbs while Major Nasan (sic) walked around with a virtual "I'm a Jihadi" neon sign over his head. Political correctness kills." elrond
Was Bush responsible for 9-11? This is why I love you crafty dipwads. You say Obama is responsible for Ft. Hood. Then you say Obama is responsible for Ft. Hood just like Bush was responsible for 9-11 implying that Bush couldn't have foreseen 9-11 and therefore Obama couldn't have foreseen Ft. Hood. But he (Obama) is responsible just the same. The logic is death defying. Evil Kenievil thought processing.
And both events are equivalent in your little brain. 13 vs 3000. And then there's the fact that "According to military records, Hasan worked as a psychiatrist at the Walter Reed military hospital for six years until this July" (http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/nidal-malik-hasan-wanted-army-family/story?id=9008184). So, according to you, elrond, Hasan "walked around with a virtual "I'm a Jihadi" neon sign over his head" for 5 years and one month under Bush's watch and 11 months under Obama's. What's your point again?
As to Afghanistan, should we be there or not? Declare yourself elrond. Let's see how big a peacenik you've become since last election day.
"BTW. There's a chance KSM could be let off on a technicality or found innocent...That's why the NYC trial is political theater and the real target is George Bush." elrond's drunk
What? Your belief in American justice and the Constitution is inspiring, elrond. Trying terrorists in NYC is an attack on W? Jesus. When is it that you're NOT under attack by something, for Christ's sake? You're being attacked by the MSM, by Obama, by the terrorists, by Islam, college professors, feminists, blacks, Hispanics, liberals with remote controls, gays, health-care reformists, abortionists, gun control, evolutionists, global warming and Oprah. Your 'under siege' mentality is tiresome. You're afraid of fucking everything. The point of terrorism is to create terror. And it worked on you baboons. You've already surrendered, brave American.
Trogs,
I have faith in the American Constitution, however, I have no faith in American justice as personified and politicized by Obama and Holder.
I repeat, the trial of KSM and his
buddies is a show trial, something your sarcasm cannot refute. A show trial whose real target is George Bush. Hell, even the usually clueless DUmmies have recognized the truth behind this farce.
I remain hopeful for a successful conclusion in Afghanistan but Obama does not. He wants out but can't think of a way to do it, so he continues to dither. Maybe
it'll just go away. But it won't.
Obama's got to get off the dime.
Meanwhile the deficit grows relentlessly as does unemployment
(while Trogs chants "Nyaah,it's Bush").
I'm drunk and you're stupid, I'll be sober tomorrow but you'll still be stupid.
Anon 1:37PM is me, I hit the wrong button.
BTW. I'm too old to be afraid of your list of boogeymen. But I am afraid of an economy on the skids, inflation, unemployment exceeding 10%, massive federal deficits and debt, increasing taxes, increasing energy prices, my children and grandchildren saddled with a debt burden that will ruin their lives,
and a White House with a banana republic imagination.
Go ahead, whistle in the dark, blame Bush, it's Obama's failure we're delaing with now.
Hmmm...looks like I've been hitting even more wrong buttons.
Holder's testifying before the Senate. He's defending "his" (actually Obama's) decision to hold
a civilian trial for KSM without stating how he arrived at that decision. But we all know how and why the decision was made.
Interesting, both Obama (in China) and Holder have stated that KSM and his buddies are guilty and will be executed and even if they are found not guilty they won't be released. That's showing the world the fairness of American justice.
Of course, both Obama and Holder really want Bush and Chaney on trial, KSM is strictly a means to an end.
BTW. It will be years before KSM actually goes to trial (given discovery and defense objections)
Enough.
"I have faith in the American Constitution" elond
And then go on to explain why you don't have faith in the Constitution.
Let me ask...
Do you think Gitmo prisoners are likely to escape American prisons?
Do you think Gitmo prisoners are likely to find recruits in the American prison system or do you think they all might be fucked up the ass with a salad forks if the general population knew who they really were?
Do you think if given a trial in the US that the terrorists would be able to spew their evil rhetoric and somehow magically transformed us all into Islamic jihadists?
Yes you do!
And you wonder why even disinterested people think you're all fucking nuts.
3:49 AM
edit comment publish this comment
Yes you do!
No I don't, butthead. Don't tell me what I think.
My faith in the Constitution is matched only by my lack of faith in the Obama administration and its Justice Department which I consider dishonest as well as incompetent, a nasty combination. Think I'm wrong? Check out Holder's "umm, ah, huh?" Senate testitmony.
So they'll put the Gitmo prisoners in an Illinois jail, it's a great jobs program (Obama's gift to the Chicago machine). But they're not getting a civilian trial since their just small time rube terrorists who are of limited use in trashing Bush.
On this issue, the DUmmies are more realistic than you.
Sad.
TROGLAMAN - The Official Hate-mongering Anti-American Guttersnipe of the DUmmie FUnnies Blogsite - power-slammed his head squarely up his ass and emitted the following pile of worthless mental excrement:
"Do you think Gitmo prisoners are likely to escape American prisons?"
Irrelevant (as usual for rants from Guttersnipe). The problem is putting mad dog killers who committed acts of war into the criminal justice system (which has never happened before) where a symphathetic jury or judge could very well find a Troglaman-like excuse to let them off the hook.
TROGLAMAN then power-slammed his head up his ass and emitted the following worthless mental excrement:
"Do you think Gitmo prisoners are likely to find recruits in the American prison system or do you think they all might be fucked up the ass with a salad forks if the general population knew who they really were?"
While it is true there are people in maximum security penal institutions who still show love of country and would kill these scum if they got the chance (and who I would support a pardon for if they do by the way), there is no chance in hell (or your hate crazed mind, Guttersnipe) they will be allowed to mingle with the general population before their trial just because they might get killed. I know you haven't the intellectual depth to comprehend that Guttersnipe, but that is a fact.
As to finding recruits, they may get some from a prison populace were they to be convicted, but most of their recruits would come from overseas individuals who would view these scum as heroic figures, the same as you, Guttersnipe, view yourself as a relevant, coherent and intelligent individual.
TROGLAMAN then power-slammed his head up his ass like a jackhammer and emitted the following worthless mental excrement:
"Do you think if given a trial in the US that the terrorists would be able to spew their evil rhetoric and somehow magically transformed us all into Islamic jihadists?"
No, Guttersnipe, they are going to spew their evil rhetoric and encourage others in the areas they came from to become Islamic Jihadists. If you had even the most basic level of intellectual depth, you'd know that - but you don't so you can't. That however does not change that reality.
Bottom line is Elrond is correct in his commentary, you are merely spouting your variant of Moonbat garbage using your William Rivers Pitt-like thinking process. Typical for a Guttersnipe.
"I repeat, the trial of KSM and his
buddies is a show trial, something your sarcasm cannot refute. A show trial whose real target is George Bush. Hell, even the usually clueless DUmmies have recognized the truth behind this farce." another anon
Notice anon uses "is", present tense, as if it's a trial going on right now. It's not. Just so you know.
"Go ahead, whistle in the dark, blame Bush, it's Obama's failure we're delaing with now." elrond
Well, fuck. I'm at a loss as to how to deal with your reality, elrond. How about this - Obama's legacy will be determined by how he manages W's fuck ups. Are we getting closer? Your eagerness to make all this Obama's shit is just too apparent. It's not Obama's shit. He's dealing with W's failures. How he deals with them will be his shit. There.
Listen, I have no trouble going after the bullshit. I've said this again and again - partisanship doesn't matter to me.
I'm old enough to have actually marched against LBJ. During the '68 Dem Convention in Chicago, I was a fervent believer in "The whole world is watching." Still am. I was around when the southern Dems (they're all yours now, thank God) lined up against desegregation.
I now believe that, because the right's politically irrelevant, the fucking DUmmies are the big-assed problem. It's about the money. It's not about what our elected leaders believe. It's not about ideology. It's all about who's getting money from whom.
You and I can go on and on about trials, or health-care, or abortion, or the wars, but what's clearly happening is all about the money and who gets it. They'll pretend to understand us and they'll pretend to speak for us. But it soon becomes obvious (just look up how our elected leaders vote and who contributed) that you and I don't really matter. Except that we elect them. Shazam.
Where you and I and all the rest of you stupid shits differ, is that I, troglaman, can conceive of a different path. I WANT a different path. I don't care if it works or not, just give me something different than a whole bunch of white guys ramming it up our ass. If it doesn't work, then we move on to the next alternative. But doing nothing is suicide.
What's your alternative? I have consistently asked for a different idea from you motherfuckers and I rarely get one. What I get from you is about doing fucking nothing...and a whole lot of bitching and whining.
Any of you willing to admit your cluelessness and inertia caused this shit? Any of you willing to offer up something other than what we should NOT do?
Didn't think so. What you guys are good at is making dire and, ultimately false, predictions (riots in Denver), trumpeting false victories (Mission Accomplished) and bitching at anyone attempting to right your wrongs even though you've been wrong about everything.
Back to topic...did Spain, Indonesia, England, and India all have the wrong idea about trying their terrorists? Because they tried them, were all these trials simply political in nature? Were they show trials?
And if they weren't show trials, elrond, why would you think the USA could only offer up a semblance of justice compared to these four countries?
Like I said, you've already surrendered. Anything from here on out is in defense of being terrorized and...wait a minute...are you guys working for the terrorists? Has Obama got you in his clutches?
...wait a minute...are you guys working for the terrorists? Has Obama got you in his clutches?
Obama? Don't you mean Osama?
There's no denying Bush's fuck-ups but Obama doesn't have the answers.
All he's doing is leading this country into the economic abyss.
Obama's part of the problem, not the solution (as they said in the 60s). The $144 billion deficit in October is part of that problem as is the 10.2% unemployment rate. In the near future the national debt will be greater than the GNP. Already the Chinese have taken Obama to task for his reckless spending spree.
The One's trip to Asia is a disaster for the "Pacific" President.
Obviously, you an I will not agree on the coming trial of KSM and his lads. There's nothing that I've seen or read that persuades me that it is nothing but a political show trial, a product of Obama's obsession with George Bush. Like a banana republic generalissimo, Obama is fixated on discrediting his predessor. Accordingly, Obama and Holder have converted heinous acts of war and war crimes into criminal offenses giving the perpetrators the protections of the Constitution of the United States. Obama is engaged in a venture that will simultaneously undermine the prosecution of the war while it blurs the the distinction between war and crime. Holder says that attacks on Americans in the United States are to be treated as crimes subject to prosecution in federal court, while attacks on Americans overseas are treated as war crimes subject to prosecution by military courts.
What's the underlying rationale? I see none.
So here's a perverse incentive for terrorists; don't attack a well-protected military installation. No, attack American civilians and get a cozy cells with Miranda rights, a lawyer and maybe your own blog. Everyone knows, whatever the verdict, KSM and his thugs will never be released, hence the farce.
Glad to see you marched against LBJ, I fought for LBJ, we both lost that war. BTW, Senator Fullbright (D,Ak) opposed the war even as he opposed civil rights legislation.
As you say, nothing Republicans or conservatives say has any weight in the current debate; we're sitting on the sidelines while liberal Democrats duke it out with the socialist Democrats and Trotskyite Democrats. The whole world watches in amusement. Hopefully, there will be pieces to pick up.
BTW: Do you find it disquieting that both the POTUS and his Attorney General have promised that KSM and his buds will be convicted and executed? A trial without the possibility of an aquittal is no trial at all. But it's win-win for Obama; KSM gets the chair, Bush gets the shaft and
the principle of the show trial is established. I suspect that after discovery and all the motions, the trial will begin in about two years and drag on for another year or two, just in time for the 2012 elections. The KSM trial is meant to be (among other things) a great media distraction, so even if Obama gets some criticism for it, it means we're not critcizing him for other things. Win-win.
'There's no denying Bush's fuck-ups but Obama doesn't have the answers." elrond, the oracle
That would imply that you do. Let'e hear them.
Afghanistan. I'm listening...
Health care reform. I'm listening...
Banking industry. I'm listening...
What you're going to give me, elrond, is only what's wrong. You don't understand the difference between an answer and a flawed explanation.
Let me ask you two things - Do the answers to our current problems require radical answers? If so, what are they?
By the way, "Like a banana republic generalissimo, Obama is fixated on discrediting his predessor (sic)" is such a fucking stupid statement.
I'm going to ask you again. Did Spain, Indonesia, England, and India make a mistake when they tried their terrorist perpetrators? That's a yes or no. They all got convictions. They all put them away.
You don't trust our justice system. You don't think they can do it. That, or you're scared that your buddies made such grievous errors (like torture) that these fuckers will get off. You may be right. But that'd be your fault. Because the law was violated by those representing the law. Torture's illegal here. If our government violated the law, then there's a big fucking problem. If that's the case, you fuckers got these killers off because of an infantile 24 Hours mentality. I, troglaman, don't think you assholes should get away with it.
Do you understand this? If the law had not been broken, then there would be no doubt that these assholes would be fried. However, the law was broken. Surprise!!! There now may be complications.
Consequences. Shocking.
You jackasses dug a deep hole. What's surprising is that you keep digging.
Britain, Spain, India and Indonesia did, indeed, get convictions of terrorists. So has the United States (the 1993 WTC bombers, Zacharias Moussaoui, etc.).
When Obama took office KSM was ready to go before a military commision, plead guilty and be executed. It was Obama who blocked a process which would have given us swift and certain justice.
Now we're going to have a trial in a federal courtroom in Manhattan. It'll be a propaganda bonanza for KSM, a civilian trial in the media capital of the world. The perfect venue for him to proclaim the glory of jihad and the criminality of the United States. We'll re-visit 9/11, the greatest (and most televised) terrorist attack in history. KSM, the architect of 9/11, will be given a second shot at glory.
Both Holder and Obama have already declared KSM guilty. They have already undermined the fairness of the trial---the presumption of innocence. Holder has said of the trial that "Failure is not an option." Wink-wink, nudge-nudge, we all know, whatever the outcome of the trial, KSM will not go free. If acquitted or released on a technicality, he be immediately re-arrested. So much for showing the world the fairness of our judicial system.
The trial itself will be a security nightmare, costing millions of dollars and disrupting the lives of thousands of residents and workers in downtown Manhattan.
Too, it will endanger U.S. security; civilian courts have broad rights of cross-examination and discovery which give potential terrorists access to information about intelligence sources and methods. When the 1993 WTC bobmers were on trial the prosecution was forced to give the defense a list of 200 unindicted co-conspirators,
including the name Osama bin Laden.
Yet Holder does not oppose military commissions. On the same day he announced the civilian trial of KSM in New York he announced the trial of the USS Cole bombers before a military tribunal. Holder is saying if you're a terrorist who attacks a the military target you get a military tribunal but if you're a terrorist who murders civilians on U.S. soil you get a civlian trial with all the constitutional rights granted a civilian. Now there's an incentive for a jihadi. By what logic (I ask again) does KSM rate a civilian trial? Which is a war crime, attacking a warship or mudering 3,000 civilians?
KSM has already volunteered for martyrdom, we should have granted his wish. Instead he gets lawyers and a wonderful propaganda platform, just a five minute walk from the hole that was the WTC.
All this leads to my conviction that KSM is a secondary consideration. The DUmmies are absolutely right, the real object of Holder's and Obama's show trial is George Bush. Holder told the Washington Post that the coming trial in New York will be "the trial of the century", I have no doubts about that truth.
"When Obama took office KSM was ready to go before a military commision, plead guilty and be executed. It was Obama who blocked a process which would have given us swift and certain justice." the all and knowing elrond
Think we ought to do this all the time, elrond? Anyone pleading guilty should be automatically convicted?
Oh wait. This would've "given us swift and certain justice".
You know that. Fuck trials and all that shit. YOU, elrond, ALREADY KNOW what the fuck's going on.
Well shit. Now all that's left is we somehow believe you just because you say the guy should have been granted his execution.
You always want to do what the terrorists want, elrond. You aware of that?
I never said KSM shouldn't be given a trial, a military tribunal could have accomplished that goral. The fact remains, that KSM had announced his guilt and stated his willingness to be executed for the greater glory of Allah. There was no need to fly him to NYC for a civilian trial---unless, of course, you want to provide him a propaganda platform.
KSM's attorney has already announced that he will use the trial as an opportunity to tell the world why the attacks occured and how they were justified.
KSM's attorney has also stated that, no matter the outcome of the trial, KSM will never be freed.
It's a farce that will drag on for a long time, perhaps years. Strictly a political decision without legal or moral justification.
Obama's doing what the terrorists want, are you aware of that troggy? Of course you are.
"goral" = "goal"
Happy Thanksgiving turkey!
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