Leftwing Blogosphere In UPROAR Over Obama Oil Drilling Switch
Obama Shifts, Says He May Back Offshore Drilling
[I guess Obama must have read the latest POLL showing that 60% of Floridians SUPPORT offshore oil drilling.]
ST. PETERSBURG, Fla. — Democratic presidential candidate Barack Obama said Friday he would be willing to support limited additional offshore oil drilling if that's what it takes to enact a comprehensive policy to foster fuel-efficient autos and develop alternate energy sources.
[He makes the switch announcement in the same state where the poll results show overwhelming SUPPORT for offshore oil drilling. How convenient.]
Shifting from his previous opposition to expanded offshore drilling, the Illinois senator told a Florida newspaper he could get behind a compromise with Republicans and oil companies to prevent gridlock over energy.
[That cracking sound you hear is Nancy Pelosi's frozen face breaking apart.]
Republican rival John McCain, who earlier dropped his opposition to offshore drilling, has been criticizing Obama on the stump and in broadcast ads for clinging to his opposition as gasoline prices topped $4 a gallon. Polls indicate these attacks have helped McCain gain ground on Obama.
[Thus the Obama switch. And now to the outraged HUffies...]
gee bam bam changes his mind about drilling.........he must have seen he's slip slidin' away............
[I see Nancy's frozen face slip slidin' away.]
Holly Tolledo, there are a LOT of posts here! I usually like to read most before posting, but at well over four THOUSAND, there's no way!
[This just shows you how ANGRY the left is with the latest Obama switch. Perhaps this is A Switch Too Far.]
People can rationalize that it is a sly campaign tactic...but...when a candidate packpedals on something...there is absolutely NO reason to believe that he won't continue such a pattern. There comes a point when a leader needs to just buckle down and defend what he stands for. There are enough facts and projections available to support maintaining the ban as-is, and certainly the $1000 rebate idea would lessen (alleged & very overstated) public sympathy for lifting the ban.
He could have made the exact same impact with these statements by omitting the reversal on drilling. More oild drilling in environmentally protected areas is NOT a bold new progressive energy policy. It is buckling to corporations and the right wing. He has just taken a radically conservative, anti-environmental proposal and given it legitimacy.
I sadly predicted several weeks ago, when Obama wimped on FISA, that the stage was set for more flip-flops. He apparently continues...he doesn't have to be doing this stuff, at all.
[Meanwhile, quietly in the background, Hillary continues to plan and plot...]
He is a politician first and foremost. And a Chicago politician. I have posted that. Very good at sensing directional changes in the wind. There will be more.
[Since he is a Chicago politician then he should be able to conjure up a lot of votes from the dead.]
Today
B@r@ck 0bam@ said today he would be willing to open Florida"s coast for more oil drilling if it meant winning approval for broad energy changes.
48 hours ago
Now, I want to be absolutely clear to everybody about this. If I thought that I could provide you some immediate relief on gas prices by drilling off the shores of California and New Jersey, I"d do it.
[I'm surprised it took even that long for Obama to perform his 180.]
Please Senator Obama, say it ain't so!
[Please John, say it ain't so!]
He continually refines his positions. More to come.
[Obama needs to refine more crude oil.]
I am signing on to the do nothing until we get the criminals out of the White House plan. Shut 'em down at every turn until O is President. Then we can discuss how we are going to reasonable solve these problems when the American people again have a seat at the table and a voice in the conversation.
[Great energy platform there for Obama: DO NOTHING.]
No more offshore drilling. ALTERNATIVES NOW!!!!
[Try pedalling faster to keep your 'puter fired up.]
I think he made a mistake in even alluding to backing increased off shore drilling. It looks like capitulation to the Mc C ain demands, and makes him look politically weak and undecisive. The strategy has been and should continue to be change. Having to explain and diminish his statement does not serve him well.
[The strategy continues to be change...as in change his mind when the polls dictate he should.]
What a dissapointment. I have to assume he is pandering and doesn't honestly doesn't believe this is a sensible solution. The worst part is - he doesn't even need to pander to people on this issue. This issue is not going to make or break him. Opposing this practice is not going to repel large segments of the electorate. I never set my hopes high for Obama, but man my hopes are sinking, and sinking fast!
[I see your hopes settling down next to the Titanic.]
The flippity floppity man strikes again. Before this election is over he's gonna be for AND against everything.
[Obama was for offshore oil drilling before he was against it but for it again.]
Do not not like this idea... still voting for O. It is a shift... we will see many more before election day - I hope this works for us as democrats.
[Will it work for you if I send you a Guy Fawkes costume for election day? Remember, remember, the Fifth of November.]
In terms of election strategy, is softening the offshore drilling attack worth feeding the flip-flop charge? My guess is that the calculus was that they gain more in the middle with this, independents like people who are prepared to compromise, than they lose at the left, especially with McCain helpfully energizing our base with his attacks.
[As with Obama's world tour, it is ALL about the politics.]
Obama already comprimised on FISA. So what's a few oil derricks? Wonderful. I thought he was Mr. PRINCIPLE.
[Call him Mr. POLL.]
What a sleazeball. So BHO will back "limited" offshore drilling. How about "responsible" offshore drilling? How about "careful" drilling? "Conscientious" drilling? I guess this is no different than "residual" forces in Iraq, or any of the hundreds of other core issues he ran on during the primary that he's now disavowed.
[He was just "refining" his oil policy.]
This is a good compromise. This sucks the wind out of the Republican attack against Obama on offshore drilling, without taking our eye off what needs to be done for our future.
[A few more "compromises" like this will keep the Guy Fawkes costume factories working overtime.]
NOOOOO!! If he goes for this line, no more $$ from me. I'll still vote for him, but I don't want to see another sell out like FISA. Stand tall, we have your back Obama. Stand up to these corps, we can't lose this country.
[Your Guy Fawkes costume is in the mail.]
I trust O to do the right thing. Period.
[I BEEEEEELEEEEEEVE!!!]
Ack. Son of FISA cave-in.
[Having trouble swallowing Obama's latest shift?]
I am an Obama supporter and I am outraged at this.. This is such Bullshit!!! All this is is a parting gift from GB to his oil buddy friends. I am ashamed to call myself a democrat. Obama is doing everything possible to screw up this election.
[All part of the Perfect Rovian Plan.]
Thanks Obama, you have now made the entire Democratic party against drilling look like the fools they have been acting like for the past 6 months. People like Reid & Pelosi have put everything they have against drilling and now they are left standing alone.
[They already looked like fools.]
While I cringe every time Barack starts talking about compromises, I can see the necessity for such a thing. I mean, the polls show that 70-some percent of people want this drilling BS to happen even though it's quite well known among experts that this won't help us for another 20 plus years. I'm so fed up with uninformed citizens thinking and voting in terms of their pocketbooks who are completely unable to look at the big picture and back long-term solutions.
[So Obama is being led around by "uninformed citizens?"]
I supported Obama's FISA vote but this one is stupid. It is not a good compromise.
[And a Guy Fawkes costume to you. Now on to the DUmmies...]
Obama supports the offshore drilling plan of the Gang of 10.
[Obama supports whatever the polls say to support.]
This stinks. And I'm disgusted he's supporting it.
[But you will still vote for him on November 5, my little DUmmie.]
It Might Be One of Those "Piecrust Promises" So Common to Elections. Easily made, easily broken. It wasn't a commitment, or part of his platform, after all. I trust the man--he hasn't made any fatal errors, and he's recovered well from the worst they can throw at him so far. So keep your fingers crossed, because that may be exactly what Obama did (cross his fingers) when he spoke those words of compromise--just more graciously than a blatantly lying Republican ever did.
[Thanx for letting us know that Obama was probably just fibbing.]
just the latest in a now lengthening list of complete 180's he's made... I just "love" all the spinning his die-hard followers are trying to do - unsuccessfully.
[I'm already dizzy from all the Obama 180's.]
I always viewed Obama as a ball of clay - it was yet to be seen what he would do & the choices he would make. These early indications are NOT good signs. Actions, not words. Disappointing to say the very least.
[Demoralization, thy name is DUmmie.]
So what do we do, now that Obama just shat in our backyard?
[It's better than if he shat on your pizza.]
Good for Obama. He knows a losing issue when he sees one.
The GOP has one strength this election, and it is drilling. He is now taking the wind from their sails.
[By proving he will spin with the wind.]
Stupid move on Obama's part. Gore's support of offshore drilling in 2000 cost him almost 600,000 votes in Florida from registered Dems and self described liberals. And we all know how Florida wound up in 2000. This is where Obama, once again, has a chance to but some teeth behind that change claim he's got going. Instead, once more, he's proving that he's just more of the same ol' same ol' Disappointing to say the least.
[And now we visit the diaappointed KOmmies...]
Obama Supports Offshore Drilling??????
[Say it ain't so, B.O.!]
I never thought he would yake it this far but...
[News that you just can't "yake."]
According to a McClatchy story Obama is now in favor of offshore drilling. His rationale behind the move makes no sense. He claims he supports lifting the ban because it would allow for a process to look at options on energy.????? Does that make anys sense? I could overlook the FISA thing becasue other than that Obama has a stellar track record on civil rights. But this flip flop is just downright odd, as experts say it will take years (7-10) before any lowering of prices is felt by the consumer. What is happening to his campaign? You can't beat John McCain if you take up all his positions. Obama get back on track!!!!!!!!!
[Obama just derailed himself.]
Big oil pushed for this before the Republican Party did. Pelosi will be pressured to fold just like FISA. Does anyone here remember FISA
[Another in a series of Obama flip-flops.]
off shore drilling IS NOT a real solution
[Sorry, B.O. does NOT hear you.]
I think his statement is pretty nuanced, I don't think its a radical flip flop. I do think it's disappointing.
[A disappointing nuance.]
The oil companies will be happy to drill and destroy the environment. Tips to Obama for caving in
[Not caving in. Just nuance.]
If Obama would have maintained a consistent "NO to off-shore drilling" position we here would be behind him. But now we are divided and fighting among ourselves, instead of fighting against our common enemy.
[Divide and conquer yourselves. The perfect Obama strategy.]
Unless Obama stands up to the Repub Bullshit right now, no one will trust him to do so in the future.
[You can always trust Obama to conveniently change his position.]
I WANT to support Obama wholeheartedly. I f*cking cry when I look at all those people at his rallies. African Americans with REAL hope in their eyes. Kids. Latinas. Drag Queens. Old f*cks like me. F*ck, I'm crying now just thinking about it. I see Al Rodgers' diaries, and I'm f*cking sobbing at my desk. ( Jeebus. Just think of it. I'm going to vote for a Black Guy for President! You have no idea how surreal that is.
[Yeah, I burst out in tears laughing while watching those Drag Queens at the Obama rallies.]
I'm no McCain supporter, but at this point, I really have no enthusiasm anymore for Obama
[Too bad you Democrats didn't choose John Edwards. Now there is a man you can trust!]
It's not really a flip
[Because it's really a flop.]
Obama is failing as a leader on this issue just like he did on FISA. I hope he just playing election politics and will show real strength and leadership once elected, but it seems less likely to happen that way as time goes
[So your only hope is that Obama is really fibbing about his new policy positions?]
posted by PJ-Comix at 7:40 AM
32 Comments:
"I'm so fed up with uninformed citizens thinking and voting in terms or their pocketbooks..."
I'm my case I think and vote in terms of my wallet. But wallet or pocketbook, it's a perfectly rational and logical way of voting.
These loons are so delusional, they actually still think that Obama is something other than a hack politician out of the Chicago Democrat machine.
Still don't think Obama supporters are crackpots and fools? Read this:
"African Americans...Kids. Latinas. Drag Queens, Old f*cks like me. F*ck I'm crying now just thinking about it. I see Al Rodgers" diaries and I'm f*cking sobbing at my desk."
Hey moonbat, learn to spell "fuck"! You fucking pathetic moron. Stop sobbing, blow your nose and face reality. Obama is a politician. At lest Rev. Wright got that right.
Don't you love being lectured to by someone who hasn't the faintest idea how the market works.
hint for the DUmb Ones out there: Drilling lowers the price of oil. How does this magic happen. Well, as demand rises, we must increase supply in order to keep price at a decent level.
So, since demand cannot be lowered to any effective degree without nuclear power or an entirely new high yield energy source, that means we need to drill, pump, and refine more oil.
It's so simple. A child could understand it. Why can't they?
Who else loved this guy?
While I cringe every time Barack starts talking about compromises, I can see the necessity for such a thing. I mean, the polls show that 70-some percent of people want this drilling BS to happen even though it's quite well known among experts that this won't help us for another 20 plus years. I'm so fed up with uninformed citizens thinking and voting in terms of their pocketbooks who are completely unable to look at the big picture and back long-term solutions.
In the same post he derides drilling for not working fast enough, and blames those dumb Amerikkkans for not embracing "the big picture" and "long-term solutions." The lack of rational thought is truly amazing. Drilling is going to take too long and not be a long term solution all at the same time. Anything is possible in the land of the left.
There is a story, probably apocryphal, that sums the whole situation up for me. Napoleon called in his lieutenant and said "Plant trees next to every road in France to shade my troops on the march". The officer protested "But sir, it would take years for the trees to grow tall enough to provide the shade needed". So Napoleon said "Exactly. Which is why you must start today."
You know, it's issues like these that make me despair for them. I can understand wanting to stick your head in the sand over terrorism. I can certainly understand opposing the Iraq war, or arguing for a welfare state. You can have a rational debate over that kind of thing. This doesn't even some like it should be political. We need more oil, so we should get the oil on our land and under our water. What's to debate?
Then I remember the enviro-loons. I guess they don't get the irony of railing about "humans are a cancer on Mother Earth" via Internet from an air conditioned room.
I have heard this quote from Pelosi, from other Congressional licksphincters, from various environment-nazis and now in this thread:
"...If I thought that I could provide you some immediate relief on gas prices by drilling off the shores of California and New Jersey, I"d do it. "
Immediate relief? WTF?
These loons are always going on about "future generations" and "saving spotted owls for posterity" and other twaddle. Why is the concept of "starting today to build for tomorrow" such a difficult concept when building oil and nuclear infrastructure?
This is the same vacuous drivel that would tell you "putting $100 in a savings account won't solve your money problems today!".
No, dung-for-brains, it won't. But if you do it EVERY month for even 5 years, you'd have $60K PLUS interest!
It's called "investing in the future"...
Apparently only applies to their choice agenda items.
"hint for the DUmb Ones out there: Drilling lowers the price of oil. How does this magic happen. Well, as demand rises, we must increase supply in order to keep price at a decent level." britt
Jesus friggin Christ, britt. What does it take? OPEC decides the price of oil. Not "drillings". Oil companies already own vast drilling rights to countless, bona fide areas. They're holding on to these sites knowing they can get much more later. It makes sense in an evil way. Look it up dumbass. The Google Tubes will show you the light. This is the game they are playing. They have to.
Oil extraction a thing of the past. Get over it. There's not enough oil left to make a difference. I beseech thee, think AHEAD.
Why would any of you stupid shitmeisters want to continue drilling? What's the point? We're not an oil producing force and no matter how much drilling and refining we do, it won't mean shit. Oil's done. Tapped out. Some of you might have noticed while paying $3.99 a gallon. Or $418.00. Or $526.99 for diesel. Get used to it.
The price of oil will never drop significantly again. Profits will increase (inadvertent stock tip). It's a done deal. We (the dumbfuckinghippie smartasses) knew it was inevitable 30+ years ago. Oil is running out and no matter how many more wells we drill, the price will continue to go up because there's not enough oil left to supply the oncoming need. Simple as that. Supply and demand indeed.
Maybe we should find a way to stop feeding these murdering jackasses. There's a thought.
troglodyte: "What does it take? OPEC decides the price of oil. Not "drillings".
Wrong. OPEC's production levels determine the price of oil, to an extent. OPEC produces to meet demand, it can up or down production and thus affect oil prices if it wants. They don't have a magic pricing switch. And "drillings" of course, being the method of oil production, means prices are indeed determined by "drillings" whether in OPEC member nations or elsewhere. You increase "drillings," you increase production, ya see. It's not that hard to understand. If you libs are going to insist talking economics please do us all a favour and obtain a basic understanding of how they actually work.
Oil companies already own vast drilling rights to countless, bona fide areas. They're holding on to these sites knowing they can get much more later.
Right, because selling oil at current record prices would make so little financial sense.
It makes sense in an evil way.
It makes sense to liberals because it places "the corporations" at fault. It doesn't make sense any other way.
Look it up dumbass. The Google Tubes will show you the light. This is the game they are playing. They have to.
Right, "the corporations" and their corrupt Rethug puppet politicians are lobbying congress to get offshore drilling bans revoked so that they can spend billions exploring for resources that they currently already possess but aren't producing because they want oil prices to stay high... Okay then. Or were you referring to foreign "corporations?" Cos that'd make even more sense in the context of the U.S. drilling ban.
Oil extraction a thing of the past. Get over it. There's not enough oil left to make a difference. I beseech thee, think AHEAD.
U can haz nukular power? Pretty simple, if you think about it. Or coal. Plenty of both of those. But no, the reason conservatives want to develop those is so they can pollute Gaia and earn more billions of dollars of oil money, not because "alternatives" are unviable.
Why would any of you stupid shitmeisters want to continue drilling?
Er... To get teh oilz?
What's the point?
Um... yep still to get teh oilz.
We're not an oil producing force and no matter how much drilling and refining we do, it won't mean shit.
...except for lower prices. Which was kind of the whole point to begin with.
Oil's done. Tapped out. Some of you might have noticed while paying $3.99 a gallon. Or $418.00. Or $526.99 for diesel. Get used to it.
Yep. Oil's gone, it's done, it's tapped out. That's why teh oil companies are sitting on "vast" legitimate fields that they're not developing, and why the U.S.' massive domestic oil reserves shouldn't be developed. Or something.
The price of oil will never drop significantly again. Profits will increase (inadvertent stock tip).
Oh look, it's a liberal who understands economics!111!!! Never mind the $20+ drop in oil prices last week alone, or OPEC's own testimony that prices will drop once the dollar strengthens. Teh liberalz haz spoken!
It's a done deal. We (the dumbfuckinghippie smartasses) knew it was inevitable 30+ years ago.
You wished it to be inevitable 30-something years ago, just like you're wishing it now. Interestingly all y'all are also the ones blocking anything else to replace it, besides running cars on corn cobs and so forth.
Oil is running out and no matter how many more wells we drill, the price will continue to go up because there's not enough oil left to supply the oncoming need. Simple as that. Supply and demand indeed.
Quick, better give OPEC a call and tell them they're wrong!
Maybe we should find a way to stop feeding these murdering jackasses.
Yeah, stick it to them damn Qataris, Venezuelans and other such sundry murdering jackasses. Quick, find an alternative! Just make sure it's not anything that's remotely viable or causes Mother Earth further pain! Never mind the most basic fundamentals of economics, if enough liberals tell everyone else to find a solution it won't matter that the same liberals are blocking all the other solutions, it will simply happen, man!
There's a thought.
Any suggestions? Or just more of the same liberal b.s... "You're doing it wrong! Don't do that! Find another way, man!" Rinse and repeat - applies to any viable energy solution anyone will ever suggest.
Ouch.
That fisking is gonna leave a mark.
There's really no point in trying to explain free market commodities to Troglaman, he relies on a faith-based economic structure, that faith being Socialism. Facts have no chance of persuading in the face of a committed faith like that.
Claw, awesome fixking.. Very well done!
One point missed: the oil companies don't 'own' the leased areas in question. They're LEASES! They have a time limit to them and if the oil companies don't develop the resources, the leases expire. Period. Not to mention the fact that there are royalties paid etc.
If those leases where in any way shape or form capable of producing econmoically viable oil or gas, they WOULD be producing it right now, especially at $120/barrel.
Typical lib mentality.. Just stick a straw in the ground ANYWHERE and viola! Oil...
T-man,
What an ignorant rant. Even by your minimal intellectual standards it didn't make sense.
A dumbfuckhippie smartass like you should know better. But you've been wrong about everything of consequence for the past 30 years.
T-man,
Here's how evil Exxon fared in the 2nd quarter of 2008.
Revenues: $138.00 billion
Profit : $11.68 billion
Return on investment 8.46%
Taxes paid: $32.36 billion
So Exxon paid $3.00 in taxes for every $1.00 in profit.
The taxing authorities made a windfall profit off EXXon.
Obama sez he'll "maybe" support offshore drilling, but only if the Rethugs sweeten the deal with givaways to people who don't pay taxes ($500 - $1000) to help defray the impact of $4/gallon gasoline. How does he propose paying for the giveaway? By imposing "windfall profit" taxes on the oil producers, of course.
That's f'n brilliant! (No, really, it is brilliant and that's not sarc!)
Tax the producers who will pass the added tax expense onto the consumers, so now our $4/gallon gas will cost $5/gallon. It's brilliant in that it achieves 2 collectivist goals: a) reducing demand through punitive taxation, and b) "buying" votes of those who pay no taxes (and no attention).
What a magnificent, cynical bastard! We really have to make sure he never gets his hands on the levers of power.
Here's an interesting take on his appeal:
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB121736628530894671.html?mod=opinion_journal_federation
By the way, the offshore drilling not having an impact for years and years is bullsh*t as well. There are platforms already in place off the California coast that were in fact producing oil until the ban on offshore production was put in place 30 years ago. Getting those platforms producing again would take less than a year.
There is also the spillage issue that's being obfuscated: the natural seepage of the area off Santa Barbara has put something like 1.5B barrels of oil into the water over the last 30 years that offshore production has been banned. If the existing, idled platforms were spun up, it would reduce that natural seepage by relieving the pressure that causes it in addition to putting that oil to better use than slicking Santa Barbara's beaches.
Ah, shucks, the tman is just ticked off because his idol, the obamessiah, has flipped and flopped again. MC, that was a wonderful post. You kicked some major liberal butt.
"Wrong. OPEC's production levels determine the price of oil, to an extent. OPEC produces to meet demand, it can up or down production and thus affect oil prices if it wants." mandible claw
You say OPEC's production levels determine the price of oil and then go on to say OPEC controls their production. So let me say this again and see if you can find another illustrative point of wrongness. OPEC controls the price of oil. Yes or no my exoskeletal dumbass friend.
"Yeah, stick it to them damn Qataris, Venezuelans and other such sundry murdering jackasses. Quick, find an alternative! Just make sure it's not anything that's remotely viable or causes Mother Earth further pain!" mandible claw (sometimes known as just "good eats")
So you love them Qataris and Venezuelans do you? I'm sure you do. Not. You're blowing smoke, you jerk. Instead of going after me, why not address the fact that more drilling will not affect future oil pricing. Show me one little tantalizing bit of truth other than I'm a stupid fucking asshole, asshole.
"Ah, shucks, the tman is just ticked off because his idol, the obamessiah, has flipped and flopped again." susieQ
You are a frigging psychic. No shit. Do you bend spoons with your kids and stuff?
"Getting those platforms producing again would take less than a year." john galt
And maybe you could tell us all how much oil is estimated to be produced by these platforms? Once you do, compare it to the global demand for oil in just one day and then tell us happy campers how much these platforms will offset the price of oil. Can't wait to hear the good news. In fact, while you're at it, why not add up all the offshore drilling assets, compare them to global demand, then give us the even better and more wonderful news about oil lasting for freaking ever. I'm waiting...won't sleep until I hear from you...wondering if I should build a bunker...drinking another beer...letting the cat out...praying to the new Messiah...
And what is it with this Messiah shit anyway? Has anyone actually said "Obama's the fucking Messiah"? We libs don't believe in God, remember? We're like "Messiah? What the fuck is that?" You stupid turnips are the believers. Not us. I guess that means YOU think he's the Messiah. Praise Jesus.
Sorry. Different Messiah. I forgot. Forgive me.
"President Bush said to all of us: 'I am driven with a mission from God'. God would tell me, 'George go and fight these terrorists in Afghanistan'. And I did. And then God would tell me 'George, go and end the tyranny in Iraq'. And I did."
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2005/oct/07/iraq.usa
"Has anyone actually said "Obama's the fucking Messiah"?"
"We are the one we've been waiting for." - Barak Hussein Obama
"...then give us the even better and more wonderful news about oil lasting for freaking ever...."
I have not said or implied that oil will last forever, strawman -- er, t-man.
I did imply that any prospect of increased supply (production) will reflect very quickly in prices, as much of the pricing reported is FUTURES contracts, not SPOT prices.
BTW, North Dakota and Montana seem to have as much proven oil under them as does Iraq. North Dakota is starting to look like "The Beverly Hillbillies" with all the new millionaire farmers there.
See, tman, you're always so bitter. I don't have to be a psychic to sense that. Do you not take me seriously because I'm a woman?
"See, tman, you're always so bitter. I don't have to be a psychic to sense that. Do you not take me seriously because I'm a woman?" susieQ
...well no...I think. I'm actually not convinced you're a woman. Call me crazy.
But you, susieQ, have never questioned my sexuality which scores HUGE. I'm so unbelievably flattered. You can't imagine. My eternal thanks.
"I did imply that any prospect of increased supply (production) will reflect very quickly in prices, as much of the pricing reported is FUTURES contracts, not SPOT prices." john galt
You never answer. Does OPEC control the price of oil or not? Yes or no.
Then go on to tell us what new drilling will actually add to the global supply. Do the math. Is that too much to ask? We're running out of oil. Now what. More drilling?
Buy a compound and drill for oil while the rest of humanity finds another way, dumbass.
"We are the one we've been waiting for." Obama
'I am driven with a mission from God'. God would tell me, 'George go and fight these terrorists in Afghanistan'. And I did. And then God would tell me 'George, go and end the tyranny in Iraq'. And I did." W
So...let's say these two statements were compared, and you were then asked which speaker sounded more like the Messiah. More importantly, why is this so fucking complicated?
troglaman said...
"Wrong. OPEC's production levels determine the price of oil, to an extent. OPEC produces to meet demand, it can up or down production and thus affect oil prices if it wants." mandible claw
You say OPEC's production levels determine the price of oil and then go on to say OPEC controls their production.
OPEC doesn't control the price of oil. How do you not get this? Events relating to supply and demand of oil affect oil prices. Production levels affect oil prices. Currency levels affect oil prices. Of all the myriad factors that affect oil pricing, OPEC has a direct measure of control over only one; And it rarely uses that control for any purpose besides meeting demand.
Thus, OPEC being able to exert control on pricing via production levels =/= OPEC controls the price of oil. Do you see how these two things are different? Are you aware that OPEC's oil production last month was about 500,000 barrels-a-day higher than it had been in previous months? Did you see a sudden, dramatic shift in the price of oil? Yes, you did, but it was nothing in comparison to the steady upward trend that preceded it, and which was driven by the weaker dollar and by geopolotical tensions around Iran. And, it happened much, much later than the production uptick did, and before news of the production increase was widely known. No-one is claiming even now that the price drop was particularly related to production. OPEC's president himself says pricing is nothing to do with supply and demand at present.
So let me say this again and see if you can find another illustrative point of wrongness. OPEC controls the price of oil. Yes or no my exoskeletal dumbass friend.
See above, and try to stick to something other than economics and oil market fundamentals when debating with conservatives, for the love of Obama.
"Yeah, stick it to them damn Qataris, Venezuelans and other such sundry murdering jackasses.
So you love them Qataris and Venezuelans do you?
Sure, they're people just like we are, are they not? Except perhaps for Chavez, my dislike of whom is based on the fact that he appears to be attempting to enslave the Venezuelan people in poverty and misery just as Bruthah Castro did.
That said, Venezuelands and Qataris have a resource that they exploit to better their lives, and they do so in a manner befitting free market principles. We have a demand for that resource: Why should we not be rejoicing in the fact that our need for their resources allows us to benefit them and them to benefit us? The fact that the Saudi government or Unca Chavez will get their paws on some of the loot doesn't mean it's entirely a bad idea paying it to their countries - since so much of the economy that supports their citizens relies on that money.
I'm sure you do. Not.
I'm sure your referring to OPEC member nations as murderers was an expression of deep, heart-felt empathy, rather than a play on what you mistakenly characterize as a conservative agenda.
No doubt the fact that you're a liberal trying to make a point absolves you of any culpability for labelling a vast and diverse group of peaceful, innocent people as murderers due to the actions of a few groups and governments within their midst.
You're blowing smoke, you jerk.
Sticking a liberal with their own words constitutes smoke-blowing?
Maybe you should be emitting something more substantial, in that case.
Instead of going after me,
I didn't. I went after your poor analysis and the obvious and silly agenda behind it.
...why not address the fact that more drilling will not affect future oil pricing.
Why not provide something, anything, that indicates that it won't?
Domestic drilling in the US would diversify oil supply chains and enable markets to far more effectively hedge geopolitical shocks associated with instability in virtually all of the oil-producing regions of note.
Not to mention the dilution of price pressures inherent in transportation and storage of oil from far-off lands.
Not to mention keeping more money within the U.S. economy and thus better enabling the development of alternative energy sources.
Not to mention also the likely lower cost pressures -- and thus better margins -- incurred by U.S. oil companies, allowing more funding into their research and development departments - you are, no doubt, unaware that Chevron is de facto the world leader in geothermal power development, closely followed by several other oil companies.
Show me one little tantalizing bit of truth other than I'm a stupid fucking asshole, asshole.
Your being stupid and/or an asshole has nothing to do with the issue. It only has bearing on the way you debate the issue - which is from an ignorant, agenda-driven, confrontative stance. You might be a perfectly nice guy/gal/other, for all I know. You seem a lot nicer and more rational than most liberals I speak to on teh intarweb. But, unfortunately, if you spew idiocy in a debate on oil you shall be punished for doing so. It's the law of the jungle.
Wonderful post, MC. Did you notice that the tman has no answer to you? He's had to go off topic about the "messiah" bit and can't answer your post. After all this topic is about drilling for our own oil. When you have no answers go "off topic".
Gee, tman, thanks for giving me permission to call you crazy: you're crazy. And a troll. And as such, trolls come in both sexes. So, it doesn't matter your sex. A troll, is a troll, is a troll.
suzieq2cute: thanks, unfortunately this same issue has to be thrashed into various sundry liberals over and over again, so one gets reasonably practiced at it after a bit.
although, t-man seems to take things in a lot better spirit than most lib-tards, it's a reassuring sign of sanity.
anyhoo, thanks again, and keep rocking.
"Events relating to supply and demand of oil affect oil prices." "OPEC's president himself says pricing is nothing to do with supply and demand at present." lobster man
Fine. Have it both ways.
How 'bout this? Anytime oil wants something, like more drilling rights, they decrease production and then claim they need more resources. That'd be a rather elementary strategy for making money, wouldn't you say? In fact, one could make a really good argument that this is exactly what they've done for fucking ever. And you, my friend, go to thoughtful lengths to defend it and explain it. Which means, from my humble station, that you have become a Lesser Dumbass. Not that anything you said made sense.
"And as such, trolls come in both sexes. So, it doesn't matter your sex." susieQ
Let me think about this for a second...
It does to me, for Christ's sake! As a matter of fact I've got my eye on a little filly in the neighboring clan and...wait a minute...I get it. Your talking about about yourself, right?
"suzieq2cute: thanks, unfortunately this same issue has to be thrashed into various sundry liberals over and over again, so one gets reasonably practiced at it after a bit." The Craw
The grizzled veteran. Weary. Worn. Yet curiously optimistic.
Now who thinks he's a psychic, tman?
troglaman said...
"Events relating to supply and demand of oil affect oil prices."
Fact of market economics.
"OPEC's president himself says pricing is nothing to do with supply and demand at present." lobster man
Fine. Have it both ways.
Key words: "at present." Ie. regarding the huge moonshot in oil prices, which forced political candidates in AmeriKKKa to deal with the issue of high gas prices, which is why we are having this debate in the first place.
If you'd bothered reading my post you'd see that OPEC says the weaker dollar, as well as geopolitical pressures, are behind the spike in oil prices, not market fundamentals. That doesn't mean market fundamentals have ceased to exert control over oil prices, rather that prices have strengthened beyond their dictate due to other forces.
How 'bout this? Anytime oil wants something, like more drilling rights, they decrease production and then claim they need more resources.
Who's decreasing production? Do you have the slightest shred of evidence that this is occurring? Or that - if it is in fact occurring - it's a deliberate strategy to manipulate drilling policy? Besides, I thought you said OPEC controlled oil prices? Are they in cahoots with American Big Oil? Are they trying to help the oil companies in AmeriKKKa become less dependent on their oil and thus likely lose money?
But hey, I'm aware that the liberal concept of economics doesn't go beyond "big corporation make oil! Oil price high now! Evil corporation make price high! Also want drill in sea and kill polar bears! Must be making price high so can drill in sea!" .. But that's pretty damn weak, even for a liberal.
That'd be a rather elementary strategy for making money, wouldn't you say?
Yeah, heaps better than selling oil at record high prices, especially since the world's premier oil cartel itself says those prices aren't being driven by supply/demand fundamentals. You know, so you could theoretically sell as much as you wanted at those record prices without knocking them down. Nah, the real money's in reducing production so you can lobby the Democrat Congress for something they're never gonna give you, and in return for your troubles have them slap punitive taxation on you to help consumers.
In fact, one could make a really good argument that this is exactly what they've done for fucking ever.
Theoretically, one could, I suppose. If, that is, one had any sort of evidence that this had actually ever occurred, and an economic rationale as to why it might make more money than simply extracting and selling oil, which is the general understanding of what an oil company's main purview would be.
And you, my friend, go to thoughtful lengths to defend it and explain it.
Oh noz... I must be a shill for big oil!!!111!!! I mean, what other explanation could there be for pointing out basic economic principles and failing to subscribe to extravagant conspiracy theories based on absolutely nothing? You got me.. Occam's razor says I'm in Exxon's pocket.
Which means, from my humble station, that you have become a Lesser Dumbass.
As opposed to the rare and beautiful Ultimate Dumbass, whose characteristics typically include positing bizarre conspiracy theories on teh intarweb about teh korporations and teh price of oil, and backing them up with precisely nothing?
Not that anything you said made sense.
I'm sorry, am I meant to be surprised that a liberal wouldn't understand a basic run-down of the energy market?
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