I, NanceGreggs, LUnatic ...
One of the biggest lunatics in DUmmieland is NanceGreggs. Her brand of lunacy takes the form of a gigantic chip on her shoulder. In the demented NanceGreggs mind, she has attained the highest level of morality while the EVIL rightwingers don't even deserve to live, especially if they had anything to do with incarcerating terrorists as you can see in her THREAD, "I, NanceGreggs, US Citizen ..." Yeah, shame on anybody who had anything to do with "torturing" terrorists by overfeeding them and providing air conditioning in the tropical Gitmo weather. So let us now let SHE, NanceGreegs, Lunatic dare you to knock the chip off her shoulder in Bolshevik Red while the commentary of your humble correspondent, wondering if NanceGreggs ever had a moment of distress over terrorists sawing people's heads off, is in the [brackets]:
I, NanceGreggs, US Citizen ...
[I, NanceGreggs, LUnatic ...]
… do hereby declare that all fellow citizens who have participated in the use of torture, or the decision-making process that led to its use, or the “legal opining” that sanctioned it, are animals, totally unfit for living amongst the rest of us in freedom, completely unsuited to interact with ourselves, our family members, our friends – and, above all, our children.
[You overfed an imprisoned terrorist with orange glaze chicken and rice pilaf? I hereby declare you an animal, completely unsuited to be anywhere near my glorious presence.]
I further declare – nay, demand – that if you are truly of the belief that your efforts have been for the good of the nation and its security, you come forward and state your case – and allow the rest of us to be the judge of your behaviour and your actions.
[I further declare - nay, demand - that you allow me, with my superior morality, be the judge of your fitness to even exist.]
It’s easy. Just call your local “news” network and ask to be a guest in prime-time. You can then plead your case before the nation, and before the world. Hey, if you’re so sure you’ve “done the right thing” by all of us, you shouldn’t have too much trouble saying so in a public forum.
[Can they plead their case on "American Idol?"]
Be sure to have your wife and children in the audience as you look into the camera, and explain to the viewers how you knew what was going on, and said nothing – describe how you stood by and failed to lift a finger to stop the barbarity. You might want to throw in the phrase “I was just following orders” every now and then, just so we all understand your situation.
[You didn't lift one damn finger to turn off the air conditioning nor prevent the terrorist prisoners from getting second helpings on their chow. Yeah, and don't hit me with that "Just following orders" routine.]
Direct the cameras to capture the reaction of your family members as you make your excuses – let the world watch your daughter’s horror-filled eyes as you talk about having made the nation safe by water-boarding detainees who had never been tried nor convicted of any crime. Let the world see your son’s reaction, when he learns of your involvement in torturing children of his own age to extract vague information, rendered under the most horrific of circumstances, that you would later point to as justification for your participation in some nameless young man's unending anguish.
[Poor widdle terrorists. The horror, the horror, that we didn't tuck them in to bed and sing them lullabies.]
Let them, and the world at large, watch as you describe the excruciating pain you allowed to be inflicted on others, who had never been found guilty of anything – while you, as guilty as they come, beg for the understanding and mercy you never afforded others in their moment of torment.
[Hey Nance! You love them so much, why don't you wear a black bathrobe and join the Taliban? Be sure to cover your face or you get you head chopped off.]
Truth be told, I guess you and I are not so unalike. Because I want to see you sweat. I want to watch you squirm, like the worm you are, as you beg for mercy from your fellow citizens – as you grovel for forgiveness for your crimes against humanity, against your country, against your fellow man.
[NanceGreggs continues pronouncing the Rubber Room Manifesto.]
But if you are guiltless, as you now want to claim – why don’t you come forward and declare your innocence?
[I, Big Bob, am completely innocent of feeding Harold and Kumar a particular type of meat sandwich in Gitmo.]
Oh, that’s right, you can’t – because you are as guiltless as the guards at Auschwitz, Bergen-Belsen, Treblinka, Dachau – need I go on?
[If the prisoners at those locations had been fed half of what the Gitmo terrorists get to eat, they would have been in a state of jubilation.]
There is always a time of reckoning – sometimes it comes sooner rather than later, sometimes it catches you off-guard, just when you’ve lulled yourself into that false sense of security that tells you that you’re safe – because too much time has passed, and the world has forgotten your transgressions.
[Avenging Angel NanceGreggs. Keep her away from the kitchen knives.]
But this will not happen for you, my torturing friends. In a world of instant communication and access to the internet, your crimes will NOT be forgotten, nor your whereabouts relegated to some obscure news item that pronounces your current address as “believed to have escaped to South America”.
[Proclaimed the female Javert of DUmmieland.]
You criminals live among us – we know who you are, what you’ve done, and where you can be found
[And you can be found at Happy Town FUnnie Farm.]
And we will NEVER forget. And some of us will never rest until you are brought to justice.
[Look! Look! I just spotted Jean Valjean escaping into the sewer!]
Having said all of the above, all I can add is: “Have a nice day.” Because it may be your last – before you’re hauled off to face the consequences of your crimes.
[Hauled off to The Hague!]
Oh, and just one more thing, if I may? YOU DISGUST ME, EVERY LAST F*CKIN’ ONE OF YOU.
[Screached NanceGreggs at the moon from underneath the bridge.]
I guess that last bit needn't have been included - being so obvious and all. But I wanted to say it, just the same.
[You need say no more. Your Happy Town housing application has already been approved and your Rubber Room is ready for you.]
I am not alone in my anger, and my quest for justice.
[True. Happy Town has many other DUmmies baying at the moon.]
But you are alone, as you stutter your excuses.
[And what's YOUR excuse for the rabid drool?]
How's that feelin', right about now?
[Pretty damn good. Crazy people always make me laugh. And now to check the patient charts of your fellow loons...]
The shame will never go until there is accountability but elected officials and the press will deny us
[We shall not be denied our massive chips on the shoulders.]
Let them read the mockery of there excuses . . . in their grandchildren's high school history books.
[Only if their grandchildren go to school in the alternate universe.]
Just when I can't see how she could top the last one, she does in spades! Your excellence knows no bounds.
[Just when I thought she couldn't get any more looney...she gets more looney.]
The barbarians responsible for these crimes must face consequences and media starlets and pundits who condone this savagery should be booed off the air.
[Is any DUmmie on this thread the least bit upset with the head-sawing terrorists? Oops! Stupid question.]
You should be a script writer.
["I Was a Teenage Moonbat."]
What really pisses me off is that they just laugh at us.
[BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!! You bet!]
i agree, the human race is unworthy and probably deserves to be eradicated ASAP in all shapes and form. i have a feeling mother earth will grant that wish soon enough. sucks being a parasite.
[WE ARE NOT WORTHY!!!]
This should be sent to every last member of the Bushista/crime family.
[They appreciate good comedy material.]
Nasty disgusting pile of shit freaks! Every last f*cking one of them!
[You look cute when you are rabidly foaming at the mouth.]
I think it is extremely important to prosecute those that did the hands on torture. There will always be tyrants like Cheney, Rove, Bush family, Yoo, Gonzo, Rummy, etc. But they have to find sicko people to do their biding. Prosecute the tortures. No "following orders" excuses. Let future possible torturers know that we will go after them with a vengeance.
[Shouted the lobotomy candidate.]
posted by PJ-Comix at 4:25 PM
61 Comments:
i agree, the human race is unworthy and probably deserves to be eradicated ASAP in all shapes and form.
First, human is a species, not a race.
Second, this is what I mean when I say these "people" like PETA, ELF, and Earth FIRST are nihlists. All they seek is irrational destruction of anything to do with humans, including humans themselves.
Never has their agenda been expressed so clearly, which is surprising given their typically irrational ranting.
Senator Blaine Mayer: "... during the hearing this morning you said you had no regrets; but what I saw was a man full of regret."
Jack Bauer: "Of course I have regrets, Senator. I regret the loss of my family ... Every day I regret looking into the eyes of men, women, and children, knowing that any moment their lives might be deemed expendable in an effort to protect the greater good. ... But do you know what I regret most? It's that this world even needs people like me."
Senator Blaine Mayer: "So you believe I am naive to believe that we need to hold ourselves to a higher standard of conduct?"
Jack Bauer: "It doesn't even matter what I think, Senator. You just need to understand where I work things get a lot messier than where you work on the Hill."
You should be a script writer.
The Cartoon Network is looking for
new talent.
What really pisses me off it that they just laugh at us.
The only response to DUmmie imbecility is peals of mocking laughter.
Looks as if KayinMaine has competition for the Asshat of the Year award.
It's just hilarious that these morons get so bent out of shape at the worst of jihadist scum living fairly well.
I have no doubt, that if they had the power they desired, these guys would put those who vocalize opposition to them in death camps.
Fuck You! We are now inlightined! We now have an evolveded government that doesnt torture brown people for neocon porno! We now have a RESPECTABLE government that is loved and respected by the world communitee!
In my perfect world (which my Barack will give me) all the brown people in Gitmo will be released with huge reparations and all neo-con rascist, facist Nazis will be made into dog food!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I would say, what a fucking nutjob, but letting kay show you in her/his/its? own words makes more sense:
"In my perfect world (which my Barack will give me) all the brown people in Gitmo will be released with huge reparations and all neo-con rascist, facist Nazis will be made into dog food!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"
Why are 'the brown people' still there?
dutch508 said...
"I would say, what a fucking nutjob, but letting kay show you in her/his/its?"
Oh, whew. Read that the first time and thought it was "in her/his/Tits". Had me worried for a second. I don't think that was the real "kay", dutch. Kinda sounded like her, but something was missing.
Sure seems Miss Moonbattiness has knocked herself senseless against the rubber roof of the cave.
Wait, where's little troggy? Here troggytroggytroggy, come boy.
Skul
Isn't it funny how you NEVER hear a word from this ilk about the jihadist chopping peoples heads off, subjegating populations under their 7th century doctrine/dogma, honor killings, blowing people up, destroying the WTC etc etc.
Never a word. EVER! Where's the outrage? Where's the condemnation? Where are the crys for showing the pictures of THOSE victims, body parts strewn everywhere by a terrorists bomb, or dead people lying on the ground like cordwood?
I quess that in their minds its all justified because these 'jihadists' are fighting aganst the 'evil' U.S.
Either that or it's just a LOT easier to believe that our country is rotten than to take a good, hard, realistic look at the world.
Hypocrites, everyone of them.
"how you stood by and failed to lift a finger to stop the barbarity"
Is "barbarity" even a word?
I know "barbarism" is a word, but is "barbarity"?
"Isn't it funny how you NEVER hear a word from this ilk about the jihadist chopping peoples heads off, subjegating populations under their 7th century doctrine/dogma, honor killings, blowing people up, destroying the WTC etc etc."
Indeed. We "tortured" Gitmo detainees using psychological methods like waterboarding (If done properly, waterboarding is merely a psychological method in which the terrorist is in no physical danger of drowning, but just thinks he is) and playing loud music. In contrast, the terrorists physically torture our troops (And gays, Christians, Jews, unveiled women, etc.) using swords, saws, hot pokers, acid (I hear the radical Muslims have developed a particular fondness for using acid on their prisoners in recent years), etc.
"sucks being a parasite."
...said the dummie as he cashed his welfare check.
"Let future possible torturers know that we will go after them with a vengeance."
And the Muslim woman who got beheaded right here in America? Not a tear shed for that woman, right DUmmies? You are all a bunch of hypocrites! Now quit your whining, pick up a weapon, and join the REAL Americas trying to free the Middle East from TRUE tyranny and oppression. If you don't, then it's YOU who condone the very actions you falsely accused REAL Americans of performing. It is YOU who are truly the barbarians, the "Nasty disgusting pile of shit freaks!"
Oh, and Troggy, I AM a veteran so don't try to pull some "why don't you follow your own advice" crap on me. That bird is dead. It';s not going to fly no matter how many times you toss it out there, so I suggest you don't even try.
Has anyone ever seen Nance and WillPitt in the same room together?
"Fuck You! We are now inlightined!"
'Inlightened?' WTF is inlightened?Somehow, I picture kay squatting down on a flashlight, with beams of light coming out of her ears and nostrils...
Kay IS a satire troll...right? The drivel she posts sounds a little too forced. Not like the natural stupidity that flows from the oral rectum of NanceGreggs and her fellow DUmmies. (Yes Nance, we ARE laughing at you!)
"In contrast, the terrorists physically torture our troops (And gays, Christians, Jews, unveiled women, etc.) using swords, saws, hot pokers, acid (I hear the radical Muslims have developed a particular fondness for using acid on their prisoners in recent years), etc." Adam
Seminary. Hmmm.
So what's your point? You describe what we do and what they do and get all pissed off and then...nothing.
They teach torture in Seminary?
Anyway, we use water boarding, they use hot pokers. We use dogs, they cut off heads. Aren't you stating the obvious? Isn't there a conclusion here somewhere? Or are you just trying to justify the things we do.
What would Jesus think?
"What would Jesus think?"
He would think that you're an idiot that puts the sadistic physical torture engaged in by Islamic fundamentalists on an equal moral footing as an advanced interrogation technique (proven to work, by the way) such as waterboarding, which causes no permanent physical/psychological damage.
You do know that when we teach Escape, Evasion an Resistance techniques to our troops, they undergo waterboarding, right?
You didn't know that? You're just a jackass engaging in moral equivalence, you say? Why are none of us here surprised?
You suck a mouintain of ass, Trog. Go get bent.
Heh, troggy boy just can't help but stick his little hands in the fire....again.
If ignorance is bliss, troggy is in a constant state of euphoria.
Come on back, troggy boy.
Skul
"They teach torture in Seminary?
Um, no. Why would they?
What I know about Muslim radicals' methods, I know from what I've read on my own on websites, in books, etc.
Plus, as AF_ Veteran notes, your moral equivalence argument falls flat because our interrogation methods are NOTHING compared to what the Islamists do. Our methods basically just involve scaring them (i.e. waterboarding, barking dogs) or annoying them (i.e. Playing loud music in their cells) without doing any long term damage; their methods involve deliberately maiming and killing their prisoners in excrutiating manners.
If that's too complicated of a concept for you to grasp, then just keep on thinking the Americans are as bad as or worse than the Jihadis, and leave the debate of the issue to the lucid, intelligent people here.
Go get bent.
LOL! I haven't seen/heard that one in decades! :)
True News! Orwell Alert!
Obama's newly appointed Director of Homeland Security, Janet Napolitano, has decided that she will not use the word "terorism" as it plays into the "politics of fear". Instead, she will use the phrase "man-made disaster" as its more inclusive and does not single out any group.
The biggest man-made disaster to date is the elction of Barak Obama.
The BDS seems to be chronic, even when the active agent has left the body politic. Now that Obama is president everything is unicorns and rainbows, right ?
All of Obamas great deeds have wiped the stain away: Appearing on Leno, giving the British PM some DVDs he can't play, tripling the debt in only two months, etc. How can Nance even remember the bad dream now that the sun has arisen and the dark night has past ?
AF_Vet said..."He (Jesus) would think that you're an idiot that puts the sadistic physical torture engaged in by Islamic fundamentalists on an equal moral footing as an advanced interrogation technique (proven to work, by the way).
Yeah, I'm sure this is exactly what Jesus would say. You've obviously been seduced by Satan, AF. Wake the fuck up! That's an order.
"They teach torture in Seminary?
Um, no. Why would they?" Adam
Well you seem to know so much about it.
For example, you said, "the terrorists physically torture our troops (And gays, Christians, Jews, unveiled women, etc.) using swords, saws, hot pokers, acid (I hear the radical Muslims have developed a particular fondness for using acid on their prisoners in recent years."
Swords, saws, hot pokers, and acid. This is what Adam didn't learn in seminary.
This is what Adam didn't learn in seminary.
... unless, of course he's doing in-depth study of the Inquisition period. :)
Trog,
If you had continued reading my post instead of just those first couple sentences, you would see that I said I learned those things about what the Islamists do to their prisoners from what I've read on my own in books or on websites.
Are you deliberately trying to look stupid?
I'm still having trouble coming to terms with the notion that these people are *seriously* putting what Islamofascists do (cutting off heads, feeding people into plastic shredders feet-first, etc.) on the same moral ground as what Americans have done (put Hanes-Her-Way™ on their heads, have a mean doggie bark at them, etc.).
They just don't even come close, and any rational person can't help but see that. Is it possible that the leftards have honed their feigned indignance skills to the point where they automatically kick in over nothing?
"Wake the fuck up! That's an order."
Is that all you can come up with? Well, then allow me to retort in a way that even you can understand, buttercup: "Kiss my ass." That's a direct and lawful order, you festering liberal pustule.
"Trog...Are you deliberately trying to look stupid?"
Why, yes Adam, yes he is trying. And unlike everything else Trog tries on this site, he happens to do a bang-up job of looking stupid.
"... unless, of course he's doing in-depth study of the Inquisition period. :)" CL
Or the Salem witch hunts.
"I'm still having trouble coming to terms with the notion that these people are *seriously* putting what Islamofascists do (cutting off heads, feeding people into plastic shredders feet-first, etc.) on the same moral ground as what Americans have done (put Hanes-Her-Way™ on their heads, have a mean doggie bark at them, etc.)." Captain Kirk
So what is your fucking point? I asked Adam the same thing. Let me ask again. They cut off heads. We hook up fake electrodes, hang them by their wrists, and subject them to MC Hammer for days at a time. Along with snarling dogs.
Both are true. So now what? I get the feeling you donkeys want permission to cut people's heads off "JUST LIKE THEY FUCKIN DO TO US!!!".
Should that the next step? Should we start posting videos of a masked Obama cutting the heads off Gitmo prisoners just so we can be as bad assed as they are?
Captain Kirk thinks so.
"from what I've read on my own in books or on websites." Adam
So now you're saying your an independent agent. You're "on my own". You being in the Seminary doesn't mean shit even though you bring it up now and then. Do I have that right?
"So now you're saying your an independent agent. You're "on my own". You being in the Seminary doesn't mean shit even though you bring it up now and then. Do I have that right?"
1. I bring up being in seminary when the conversation steers in that direction. btw, in this thread, YOU were the one who brought it up, not me.
2. By "On my own," I meant just basic things I come across (i.e. books on Christian persecution around the world, websites like Jihadwatch, etc.).
In answer to your reply to Captain Kirk, let me ONCE AGAIN point out why it is completely asinine for you to try and make some kind of moral equivalence argument regarding means of interrogation, and please pay attention this time so you don't keep asking the same stupid question over and over again like you've been doing:
America's methods are, in terms of severity and potential damage inflicted, NOTHING compared to Islamists' methods. All our methods do are scare or annoy them into talking without doing them long- term physical or psychological harm. In contrast, the Islamists' methods involve brutal physical torture which does most definitely leave long- term physical and psychological damage, assuming their victims are lucky enough to even live through it!
Got it? Or do I need to repeat myself one more time?
"Got it? Or do I need to repeat myself one more time?" Adam
I got it the first time, dimwit. And I hope you're not my daughter's Sunday School teacher for Christ's sake. Jesus. Take a fucking pill.
"Last week, yet another prosecutor at the war crimes tribunals at Guantanamo Bay resigned in protest...Six prosecutors have either stepped down or refused to prosecute, citing qualms about the system."
http://www.propublica.org/article/the-six-gitmo-prosecutors-who-protested-1001
"The tales are horrifyingly medieval in nature - terror suspects beaten, bound and bleeding, forced into coffin-like boxes, shackled naked to their beds in darkened cells, deprived of food for weeks, forced underwater to the point of near-drowning, ordered to stand for days."
http://www.google.com/hostednews/canadianpress/article/ALeqM5jQFtXD2Y2LUJpdDbYoK3xyIBo82w
"The 25 lines edited out of the court papers contained details of how Mr Mohamed's genitals were sliced with a scalpel and other torture methods so extreme that waterboarding, the controversial technique of simulated drowning, "is very far down the list of things they did," the official said....All terror charges against him were dropped last year."
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/politics/defence/4551441/UK-government-suppressed-evidence-on-Binyam-Mohamed-torture-because-MI6-helped-his-interrogators.html
"Some 800 men have been held at Guantanamo since the prison opened in January 2002, and 240 remain. Wilkerson said two dozen are terrorists, including confessed Sept. 11 plotter Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, who was transferred to Guantanamo from CIA custody in September 2006."
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2009/03/19/ex-bush-official-guantanamo-bay-innocent/
This is not an equivocation, Adam. It's not that complicated. We torture or we don't. It's a matter of drawing the line. And you've been very clear about where you would like it drawn. What's particularly interesting is that you find this behavior within Christian boundaries as well. I don't think Jesus would like you very much.
1. "I don't think Jesus would like you very much." The Lord Jesus loves all men, while not necessarily loving some of the things they do.
2. "I got it the first time, dimwit." Then why, may I ask, did you continue relying on that moral equivalence argument that we're supposedly no better than the Jihadists, even though I pointed out that what they do is 20 times worse than what we do?
3. I don't automatically discount everything that those incarcerated at Gitmo have said about their treatment, but I do view it as at least suspicious, for two reasons: a) The Koran says that it's okay for Muslims to lie to non- Muslims. b) At the raid of a terrorist cell's hideout some years ago, among the items the investigators found was a kind of Jihadist training manual. One of the things it said was that, if any of the Jihadists are incarcerated at Guantanamo Bay for any length of time yet are released, that they should immediately tell the media that they were tortured, regardless of whether they actually were or not, as a way of helping to increase oposition to the War on Terror.
NanceSmeggs said:
"There is always a time of reckoning – sometimes it comes sooner rather than later, sometimes it catches you off-guard, just when you’ve lulled yourself into that false sense of security that tells you that you’re safe – because too much time has passed, and the world has forgotten your transgressions."
Blind squirrel finds nut! Of course she is off on the wrong tangent entirely about just who is playing the complacent fool here, and will be PAYING said reckoning...
"Then why, may I ask, did you continue relying on that moral equivalence argument that we're supposedly no better than the Jihadists, even though I pointed out that what they do is 20 times worse than what we do?" Adam
What are you using for a measuring stick? Don't answer that. First look at the thread. You made the initial comparison, not me. In fact, I was more surprised by your outside-the-seminary interest in "Swords, saws, hot pokers, and acid" than anything else. Adam knows about these things because of his study of Christian persecution.
They teach Christian Persecution at seminary, Adam?
Anyway. Back to the measuring stick.
Here's my problem. It may be a matter of perspective. Terrorists, primarily Saudis, hijack planes and bring down the WTC. 3000 people. We respond by invading Iraq, which had nothing to do with it, kill approximately a million or so, displace millions more, etc. And then you say "that what they do is 20 times worse than what we do." I don't get that part. But then you're probably talking about the 'beheading' videos and shit...all 3 of them...which was some bad damn shit. Scary. Mortifying.
What is it terrorists do?
And you react just like they want you to. They want you to be afraid of the big bad Muslim, Adam. They're counting on you. It's why, even though we're killing them at a rate of around 1000(them) to 7(us) or so, it's not enough for you, mr seminary guy. I still think Jesus doesn't like you.
"The Lord Jesus loves all men, while not necessarily loving some of the things they do." Adam
Really? Bundy? Hitler? Pan Pot? McViegh?
Guess that pretty much means we're all off the hook.
Whew.
Trog: "Really? Bundy? Hitler? Pan Pot? McViegh? Guess that pretty much means we're all off the hook."
Loving and condoning aren't at all the same. Loving doesn't mean a lack of punishment either.
I doubt you're off the hook. Off your rocker, definitely.
By the by, it's Pol Pot. Not the redundant Pan Pot.
"Adam knows about these things because of his study of Christian persecution.
They teach Christian Persecution at seminary, Adam?"
1. No. As I said (If you paid any attention to my past readings beyond a few snippets that you try and twist in a pathetic attempt to portray me as a monster), I didn't learn any of it from seminary. It was all stuff I discovered on my own.
2. To clarify in case you don't understand, I wasn't talking about persecution done BY Christians (i.e. The Salem Witch Trials or anything like that), I meant persecution done TO Christians (i.e. In a book of the life stories of meaningful Christian women throughout history that I read, there is an account of a Christian girl from Egypt who was kidnapped by a Muslim gang that tortured her with beatings, gang rape, and acid to try and force her to convert to Islam).
"It's why, even though we're killing them at a rate of around 1000(them) to 7(us) or so, it's not enough for you, mr seminary guy."
Um, okay. In case you didn't know, lying and slandering people, as you did with that statement, is never a good debating tactic. We all know I never said I wanted to see them die. As you may notice, I stressed that our methods tended to not do ANY lasting physical or psychological damage to them.
P.S. The "We killed a million Iraqi civilians" claim has been discredited too many times to count. Another important consideration to make is that the vast majority of the Iraqi civilians killed in the war were killed by the Iraqi insurgents (i.e. killed by shrapnel from suicide bombing attacks), not the American troops.
I won't bother refuting your "Bundy (Who, incidentally, repented of his hideous actions and found Christ before being executed), Hitler, Pan Pot (It's Pol Pot, genius), McVeigh" argument, becuase Anon did a good job of doing that himself.
"Another important consideration to make is that the vast majority of the Iraqi civilians killed in the war were killed by the Iraqi insurgents (i.e. killed by shrapnel from suicide bombing attacks), not the American troops." Adam
http://www.iraqbodycount.org/database/
Take a look at the graphs on the right side of the screen and tell me again that the "vast majority" of civilians were killed by suicide bombing insurgents. And even if killed by the insurgency, how many insurgency-related deaths occurred before we invaded? You're probably about to tell the Sunni-Shiite conflict has been going on for centuries blah blah blah...
"As you may notice, I stressed that our methods tended to not do ANY lasting physical or psychological damage to them." Adam
And as you may have noticed, I went through considerable effort to display your full-of-shittedness.
Let's try to boil this down.
Is what they do to us 20 times worse than what we do to them?
Does having your scrotum cut and sliced with a scalpel cause "ANY lasting physical or psychological damage"?
You've argued pretty hard for both those points. They seem important to you. And I'm almost certain you're going to answer 'yes' then 'no' and equivocate your ass off.
"No. As I said...I didn't learn any of it from seminary. It was all stuff I discovered on my own." Adam
I know. That's what's cool. Your independent studies of persecution (torture methods, etc) done TO Christians (not BY Christians) was what initially hooked me. It was this statement:
"In contrast, the terrorists physically torture our troops (And gays, Christians, Jews, unveiled women, etc.) using swords, saws, hot pokers, acid (I hear the radical Muslims have developed a particular fondness for using acid on their prisoners in recent years), etc."
And you've assured us these musings have nothing to do with being in seminary, they have to do with you. I believe you. And I was honestly curious if they taught torture or Christian persecution in seminary. How the hell would I, troglaman, know what they're talking about in seminary? I guess I could send out some scouts. Spies.
In my opinion religious believers and zealots (to include all varieties) ignore and evade Reality and the rational life-sustaining basis for ethics and morality. Instead they make demands for subjugation to higher authority. Instead of answering the "Why?" question with "Because I said so!" they answer with "Because god said so."
How can one argue with higher authority comprising some mythical, mystical, super-natural power? Super-natural by definition means beyond Reality and thus is a figment of believers' irrational imagination. You can't argue with irrationality.
All terrorists are zealots and all zealots are terrorists, they differ only in the "religion" that motivates them. There is no difference between Aymen al Zawahiri ordering zealots to blow themselves up to kill as many "unbelievers" as possible to please Allah and Glenn Beck calling for Americans to adhere to his principle "I believe in God and He is the center of my life."
Jews, Christians, and Muslims all believe in the same god, the god of Abraham, so why is it they are so determined to wipe each other out of existence? It is because all such belief is irrational and a product of the whim, wish and power-grubbing of their prophets, popes, and ayatollahs.
There are two basic types of tyrant. Nathaniel Branden called them Attila and the witch doctor. Attila rules the people through brute force while the witch doctor rules Attila through his superstition and fear of the "super-natural." Rational men must eliminate both forms of tyrant and their foot soldiers in order to sustain a flourishing life.
"Jews, Christians, and Muslims all believe in the same god,"
Not exactly. The God Jews and Christians worship viewed Jews as His chosen people, whereas the Muslims' Allah was known for turning Jews into rats, pigs, and monkeys.
Trog said:
"And as you may have noticed, I went through considerable effort to display your full-of-shittedness."
No,the reports you tried to point out tended to be mostly from rather questionable, agenda- driven sources.
"Is what they do to us 20 times worse than what we do to them?
Does having your scrotum cut and sliced with a scalpel cause "ANY lasting physical or psychological damage"?"
I said our methods TENDED not to do lasting physical or pychological damage, as in the VAST majority of them didn't do lasting damage. If that account is true (As I indicated in an earlier post, I find the testimony of a terrorist on such matters at least suspicious), it was most likely an isolated incident, not something that happens commonly. If it were something more commonplace, I think I'd have found out about it from the news (Or even just from reports of the protestors who crticized Guantanamo) a long time ago.
Adam, it wasn't Allah who turned Jews into pigs, as Allah is a figment of Mohamed's imagination: it was Mohamed and his followers who did that.
You should quit before your irrational inconsistencies get the better of you.
"Rational men must eliminate both forms of tyrant and their foot soldiers in order to sustain a flourishing life." CL
(This is a fun thread)
Do I hear a closet Randian? Elimination of both forms of tyrant is impossible. Engaging them (both the internal and external tyrants) is much more satisfying, as demonstrated by Adam's dilemma.
You better be careful what you wish for, Classic. You might become bored if you became God and eliminated everything that bothered you.
"No,the reports you tried to point out tended to be mostly from rather questionable, agenda- driven sources." Adam
Fox News? OK.
Adam 1. Troglaman 0.
iraqbodycount.org/database/
Adam 1. Troglaman 1
propublica.org (Look it up)
Adam 1. Troglaman 2.
I win.
Rand was a bright woman and a Classic Liberal as well. She favored minarchic economics while I favor anarchic economics, though. She was absolutely right about there being no compromise with evil.
John Galt put it:
"In any compromise between food and poison, only death can win. In any compromise between good and evil, only evil can gain."
Terrorists, their enablers and their cheering sections are evil. They must be dealt no mercy or compromise. Terrorists deserve whatever torture they get.
Justice demands that no man be denied the consequence of his actions, good or evil. Think carefully about all the implications of that statement, trog.
Do I hear a closet Randian?
I'm no "Randroid" but there is sound Reason, logic and epistemology behind Objectivism.
(If you're objective about it! LOL!)
John Galt put it: "In any compromise between food and poison, only death can win. In any compromise between good and evil, only evil can gain." CL
I knew it.
My favorite quote, by the way. Don't take that as a compliment.
Every time I approach a Randian, they're all like "Take care of it yourself. I'm outta here."
But then I keep hearing from them. Like they care.
Everyone going Galt should have disappeared by now. Anyone proposing going Galt that hasn't disappeared is pretty much a hypocrite.
Go away, like you said you would.
Every time I approach a Randian, they're all like "Take care of it yourself. I'm outta here." -trog
You "approach" Randians? Is that like propositioning someone? Or do you just have your hand out?
I'm not going away. I gotta eat. It does seem a hell of a lot of people are bailing out or refusing to join Obama's administration or any bank or company that has had taxpayers' money shoveled into it.
Trog, how do you reconcile your support of "wealth redistribution" with the demand of Justice?
Would you two just shut up? Or get a room.
What's your problem elrond?
Trog says we should coddle terrorists, I say we should cut their nuts off and whatever else they deserve. Moreover, I make my argument from the rational basis of justice while he just "feels" it demeans us.
What's your take on the issue?
"Trog, how do you reconcile your support of "wealth redistribution" with the demand of Justice?" CL
I don't. Redistribution of wealth has much more to do with survival than it has to do with justice.
Are you comfortable with the fact that that 1% of America owns 34% of the nation's net worth?
If you think the 1% has your interests at heart, you're an idiot.
"Trog says we should coddle terrorists." CL
Do I? Quote me. Fucking liar.
Would you two just shut up? Or get a room." elrond
No no no. I'm waiting for Adam to extend an invitation.
Are you comfortable with the fact that that 1% of America owns 34% of the nation's net worth?
If you think the 1% has your interests at heart, you're an idiot. -trog
Yes, I'm comfortable with that. Why? Because they CREATED and EARNED that wealth and Justice demands their efforts be rewarded.
(And don't start going off on inheritance, trog: inheriting wealth is no different than inheriting intelligence, musical ability, or blue eyes. It's the use of inheritance that determines the value of wealth and the values of the heir.)
No I don't demand, expect, or beg the wealthy to have anyone's interests in mind but their own. I maintain that voluntary charity, not government extortion for political purposes is BENEVOLENCE. Government-forced redistribution denies people their right to choose to be benevolent.
By the way, these ideas are not "Randian:" they are Liberalism as evolved in the Age of Reason and the Enlightenment periods. Rand only recognized good ideas when she saw them and popularized them, first through fiction, later through non-fiction. Her later writing is where the full brilliance of her intellect shines, not her sophomoric fiction.
Do I? Quote me. Fucking liar.
You're remarkably clever at diverting attention and making strawman arguments, trog. If your ideas and beliefs don't come through "between the lines" then what does? Manipulation?
"By the way, these ideas are not "Randian:" they are Liberalism as evolved in the Age of Reason and the Enlightenment periods." CL
Sure they are. And I manipulated you into making such a dumb *bleep* statement. It's all my, troglaman's, fault that you're such a dirty *bleep* stupid *bleep* common-assed *bleeeeeeeeeep* sheep-loving *bleeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeep*!!!
And these notions of yours, like the age of enlightenment, aren't clever diversions?
You're right. They're not.
Thanks for clarifying things.
You said I coddled terrorists, CL. I take that personally. Show me or shut the *bleep* up.
"Yes, I'm comfortable with that. Why? Because they CREATED and EARNED that wealth and Justice demands their efforts be rewarded.
No I don't demand, expect, or beg the wealthy to have anyone's interests in mind but their own. I maintain that voluntary charity, not government extortion for political purposes is BENEVOLENCE. Government-forced redistribution denies people their right to choose to be benevolent."
Great point, Classical.
The last paragraph in that sums up why I honestly can't stand Obama and the other "Wealth Redistribution" advocates, because one of their favorite tactics is to rely on the extremely dishonest and manipulative argument of equating forced wealth redistribution with individual acts of generosity, and acting like if you don't support forced wealth redistribution, you're automatically an evil, greedy, miserly monster who hates all poor people (i.e. On the campaign trail, Obama once tried to explain one such Socialistic policy to a little girl by saying "Suppose you had a pizza. Suppose your best friend didn't have any pizza. Wouldn't you want to give her a slice?"). They try to ignore the fact that there is a big difference between forced redistribution and individuals' willing acts of generosity, and that it's not really being generous or charitable if you're being forced by the government to do so.
As for the matter of the wealthy (Those regarded as evil incarnate by leftists like trog), an important consideration to make is that they do want to make money and make a profit, and often will do what they can to get it. If, as Trog and the other lefties desire, they are forced to "Redistribute" their money, they will often try to find a way to at least break even in their businesses or lessen how much damage is done to their profits. Inevitably, among the first financial sacrifices they make in that regard are concerning the employees who work for them. In order to lessen their financial losses, they'll cut employees' benefits, salaries, hours, and ultimately start cutting jobs. I've seen it firsthand, it's the reason why last summer I lost my job at the small hardware store I worked for (And I loved that job), and the workers there who weren't laid off had their hours reduced. That is just one of the reasons why I find forced wealth redistribution to be a bad idea, because it is the workers who suffer the most as a result of it.
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